Not sure if I'm misunderstanding but if you are making a newer cymbal into an older one by faking the stamp, how would you deal with the older stamp. Not that I am planning to do this, just seems like you'd need to start with a cymbal with no stamp. Where do you get that?

From the factory, either Chinese or Turkish. The few Chinese made cymbals I've had use only ink stamps so that's easy. A few modern Turkish factories produce cymbals for other companies to sell (as well as their own brand) so I don't think that's an insurmountable problem.

I may also be confusing things by talking about faking new laser etched Zildjians (say using Chinese lookalikes) and faking 1950s Istanbul K Zildjians (using something modern from Istanbul)in the same posts. But in terms of fakes, both notions have come up so it seems worthwhile to address the two.

I forgot about another example of "fake" cymbals I've seen. Chinese sourced ones partially lathed in the Agop Sultan pattern (unlathed bell and unlathed stripe half way out the bow). I've seen a well documented report of a pair of hats were sold as genuine Agop when they were not. Seller claimed the ink logos were removed. Note that after cymbals are sold second hand a few times it is possible that the current seller is just passing on what they were told and don't know any better. Thus one can't automatically assign bad intentions and deceit to the current seller.

Gotcha! Good input, I'll def be keeping an eye out from now on.

Here's an old Ajaha 22" ride I used to own. No stamp, just an ink sig under the bell that would be easy to remove. I can easily understand this being used to fake an old K.

Cassidy

I can't see how any Ajaha, except the really early( 1920's-30's) ones, would resemble a K close enough, to be used as a blank for a K. The hammering and lathing are way more refined and precisely executed on Ajahas, not to mention that Ajahas, in their own right can be fine enough cymbals, as to warrant serious attention.Anyway, it would be a crime against the memory of Signore Ajaha, despite the potential monetary gain. No, drummer would do that, would they?------ I've had a fair number of cymbals pass through my hands----multiples of all kinds and my favourite 20" ride,is still an Italian made Ajaha..

Ajaha not even a close fake, it would need to be completely re-hammered and re-lathed., and even then probably would only fool a true fool. If it was your business to produce fakes, this is more effort that starting from scratch and not worth the energy.

The fake issue is already well documented. Fakes are nothing new, some photos unfortunately have disappeared, but have a look at Post #20 http://www.vintagedrumforum.com/showthread.php?t=24900&page=2

I don't know, about that, I've seen some pretty shady stuff at guitar center.

The stamp can be purchased for $200.

It would be easier to fake Spizzichino's than K's as Roberto employed many different hammering styles.

Later,

Matt

One is for sale on eBay right now:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/200916439796

A fine example of a K Zilojian.

[img]http://black.net.nz/cym2013/zilojian1.jpg[/img]

[img]http://black.net.nz/cym2013/zilojian2.jpg[/img]

[img]http://black.net.nz/cym2013/zilojian3.jpg[/img]

[img]http://black.net.nz/cym2013/zilojian4.jpg[/img]

Here is the text:

Could also be a hacked account since it has one only buy transaction from March 25, 2010 (drum centre of portsmouth) on it.

Note: I didn't spot this first. Somebody else on another forum found it and posted it. I'm just passing the info on here because it fits the topic of this thread so nicely.

WOW. Considering the trouble they went to to fake it, you would have thought they would had spelled Zildjian correctly. Also the Arabic script is, of course, missing altogether and the spacing is so tight there isn't enough room for it anyway. Hope no one buys it. My French is weak, but based on what I was able to understand, this cymbal sounds like a "keeper"! :-)