Without knowing that Rogers was associated predominatley with jazz, I sold my 4-pc WMP Gretsch set in 1974 for a hard rockin' Rogers set after seeing ZZ TOP in concert. I figured if those drums could hold up to Frank Beard pounding out those driving Texas blues beats, they'd hold up to anything, and I was right. That swivo hardware held fast under the most sadistic, unsophisticated beatings I gave it. It's no surprise that other company's endorsers retrofitted their toms and basses with Rogers mounts.

I don't know if Beard was an endorser or not, but I bet he sold a lot of Rogers sets. Whatever equipment Buddy Rich was playing on at that time had little influence on us long-hairs. Guys like Bill Ward, Ginger Baker, Neil Smith, and Carl Palmer were far more relevant.

mchair303!

Frank Beard wasn't ever an "official" Rogers endorser, but the fact that he CHOSE to play Rogers speaks volumes I think. That said, I also think your comments might be "age specific".. meaning .. strictly out of curiosity mind you.. how old were you in 1974? And again, most all this discussion is focused on 60's era Rogers, with Swiv-o-Matic quite in place of course!, but still much BEFORE Rogers started picking up the younger/hipper players!

Tommyp

Tried to read all through the thread here and didn't notice if anyone mentioned price, but I think that was a big factor.

It was costly to build Rogers drums and that was significant, particularly for the Brits at the outset of the Invasion. So they probably got used to that Ludwig sound, it was in their recordings and they kept going with that sound. They did, as someone noted, convert their hardware to swivomatic. Baker, Mitchell and Starr all used the swivomatic mounts and I think Baker and Mitchell even used the spurs.

Rogers was continuously investing and improving. That kind of development is expensive because you have to keep buying machines or paying outside vendors to produce the pieces for you. Ludwig and Slingerland were in-house businesses. Slingerland even had a chrome shop in their factory. Look at the shells of a Rogers drum too. Nobody is building a better shell to this day.

They are night and day from the relatively cheezy shells of the Ludwigs, which Ludwig could build in their own shop.

So it was, in part, the costs that reduced sales and eventually revealed business decisions that were less savy than those of the Ludwig folks who ultimately triumphed over them all and are still building drums to this day.

Now Gretsch was the company that pursued endorsements with jazzers and they almost got wiped out in the rock era. In fact, I think they did get wiped out, but Fred the grandson brought them back strong again with some currently really good choices. You need $$ again, so they may run into the same issue as Rogers then. DW could too. On the other hand, we generally all have more money now than people did back in the '60's. That is why you have so darned many vintage kits in your houses! So it's hard to say if the same outcomes will appear.

By the way, Rogers drums could be purchased from Sam Ash on Long Island in 1967 for 40% off. I have a sales receipt from a one owner kit that reveals this. 22,13,16 with Dynasonic in blue onyx for $345! How cool was that. But Rogers was probably bailing the stock so they could get out of Ohio and on to CBS in CA.

The Gina Schock snare drum that was mentioned belongs to me. That meeting was glorious.

The white set Gina played was stolen on its way to ... I believe I remember her saying the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. So, if and when it does surface, there are serious ownership issues.

I have been a Rogers player by choice since 1979.

Personnaly I think both Rogers and Slingerland suffered from poor marketing. By the time the 60's transitioned to the 70's Rogers did have a decent presence in the pop and rock market. With a few notable exceptions, Slingerland seemed to be viewed as your father's drums with their decidedly vintage looking lugs. Rogers had the potential for serious greatness. Their hardware was far superior to anyone's at the time and became the benchmark by which all other manufacturers (especially Pearl) we're measured. The Swivomatic design was spectacular. They were the first to introduce actual memory locks thereby replacing the ubiquitous hose clamp. The Beavertail lug certainly had/has a contemporary look compared to both Slingerland and Gretsch.

The problem seemed to be marketing. Ludwig was everywhere. Even today you can't play a single Rock Band song without seeing a huge Ludwig logo on the virtual kits. Perhaps Ludwig's endorsement package was simply better than everyone else's? It is a shame though.

I'd like to thank all you guys for making this a great thread.Bowing

Here's what I'm getting out of this, I think everyone agrees Rogers had superior hardware and possibly better shells. They had better quality control and were built better than the other American drums of that era. Now, as far as sound goes, I don't think they sound any better than Ludwig or Slingerland, but that's just me. I'll bet a lot of the big rock drummers back in the day never tried Rogers because of them being considered "Jazz" drums. They liked the hardware enough to have it fitted on there kits, but they probably never gave the actual drums a chance. I think it's all poor marketing by Rogers, there were even some pretty big rockers using Slingerland, like Bill Ward and Clive Bunker. I think Ludwig saw the bigger picture and capatalized on there vision.

If it could be guessed only by the pictures I see that Rogers was extremely popular by late 60's. Check Monterey Pop festival drums used...Jefferson airplane, canned heat, joplin, quicksilver messenger service, Hal Blaine behind Mamas and the Papas....Rogers everywhere!

Maybe Ludwig was most popular, but most respected by industry was Rogers, I think. Compared to nowadays... let's say "pearl is most popular" but dw is "most respected.."

I took your advice and checked out the video, I think I spotted three Rogers, but one wmp kit looked like it was used by several bands. I also saw at least two Ludwigs and a couple Premier kits. They had lousy camera work at those festivals, it seems they were more interested in the stoned people in the audience than in the bands on stage.

Tommy,

You are so right... this is an age-specific topic (and I was 16 years old in 1974). My drum methods teachers instilled in me a genuine appreciation for the great jazz drummers (their technical skills as well as their innovation), but it was indeed the "younger/hipper" players who had greater influence on me and my peers. I know we're focusing here on the 60's era Rogers, but personally, I love my Fullertons just as much as the Clevelands and Daytons I've owned.

Ah!... then we aren't all that far apart in age then as I was 18 in 1974! The difference I 'spose is the path we took, although I enjoyed the heavier type music back in the day too, but found my "voice" in the horn infused jazz styles, but not just limited strictly to jazz. I dug and played a lot of Funk throughout the mid 70's into the early 80's: AWB.. TOP.. Cold Blood.. etc. All my early on interest in big band jazz actually helped in the approach/playing of those other styles too.

Regarding your Fullerton's... agreed, what's not to love! Rogers was still building excellent drums after the move to Fullerton CA.. and .. Swivo was still in place for awhile too. ENJOY!!

Tommyp