Yeah, the 80s As are much different from the new vintage stuff. I didn't mean to say that the 80s stuff didn't sound good - though I understand that the 80s were not Zildjians best years, lots of people say they sounded like garbage can lids and quality control was terrible. The few I had sounded fine, but were heavy, high-pitched and clangy for my taste...I got rid of them years ago. The new "Vintage" As are thin, low-pitched and kinda trashy.

I think you may like modern A Fast, Thin, or Medium Thins, or maybe the A Custom Fast or regular crash lines. I'm thinking you'll probably like the Fast Crashes because they have a little trashiness and you mentioned liking the Trash Smash. The A Custom Fast Crashes are a little brighter than the standard As - in my experience. Or, if you don't like trashiness, the others are brighter and kinda shimmery. Again, you have to try out several to find the one that suits you...and you may not find one you like. By nature, cymbals are such individual instruments that it's nearly impossible to say "this line of cymbals has these characteristics." I had two 18" K Custom Fast Crashes at one time that sounded quite dissimilar. Several years ago, I played 5 different 18" A Custom Crashes and not one of them sounded the same. Some were close, but they all had noticeable differences.

But, if you're looking for something different, I'd say go to your local 5-star drum shop, or one that has a large selection of cymbals, and take your time trying out cymbals. Bring your cymbal bag with you so you can compare them to yours, and so you can pick one that blends with what you have if you choose to buy one.

Lynn

Please understand that for many of us who are into vintage Zildjian cymbals, we generally include K. Zildjian's made in Istanbul until the late '70's, Avedis Zildjians made before around 1970, early Constantinoples, and perhaps some EAK's (Early American K's) made shorty after the move to North America. The sound of "modern" A's is decidedly inferior to our ears in a number of respects. Even though they are verging on 30+ years of age and are technically vintage, '80 to current A are "modern" bright, pingy, and harshly metallic sounding cymbals that are just not as musical to our ears. Many play them and enjoy them, as you do. Its all a question of different tastes.

What kind of K's are you taking about. Most modern ones made in the US aren't terribly great. The K Cons are one notable exception to that rule.

Very well said!

Lynn

Well, maybe not garbage can lids, (which by the way are all plastic today), but certainly not very pleasant sounding. They were very bright, and very pingy and clangy, as you pointed out, with harsh and unpleasant overtones. Very metallic sounding and generally not musical at all. They haven't improved much since then, in my opinion. A lot of Young players use B8 sheet cymbals and seem perfectly happy with them these days. I think the subtlety of real quality vintage cymbals is lost on a lot of young drummers, who just want loud.

LoLoLoLo I always picture the old metal garbage can that my grandparents had when I was a kid. There would be a BIG problem if a cymbal sounded like one of today's garbage can lids. :p

Concerning the rest of your comment - I couldn't agree more. I grew up - in the 80s and 90s - listening to 80s and 90s music on the radio. So, I imagine I heard that 80s Zildjian tone on the radio all the time and thought that was fine when I got my first set of cymbals. I remember thinking they sounded OK, but I got rid of them...must have been a reason. ;)

Anyway, as I got into my high school years, I listened to mostly "classic rock" - Cream, The Doors, Jimi Hendrix, etc... So, I guess that's what my ears started liking, which I guess also explains why I never was very impressed with my DW kit. They sounded good, but I could never get the tone I had in my head to come out of them. I acquired and started playing my two Slingerland kits at the beginning of this year, then traded the DWs for a '67 Ludwig kit and I've never been happier with my drum tone.

Back on subject, I still like the set of modern Zildjian cymbals I have, but I picked them out based on what I wanted to hear...low, dark, trashy - not high, bright, clangy. So, in my opinion, decent modern Zildjians can be found. But, I certainly agree that they will never have the character that they had before they went to an automated process...in '64, I believe.

Lynn

I would never suggest there are no good modern A's. I haven't heard them all of course. But, most of the ones I have heard just don't appeal to me, and many just sound awful to my ears. I can say pretty much the same for many modern K's as well, although I do like some of the k Cons very much. My son and I have a 22" K Con medium thin high, a 22" medium thin low, and a 22" Light, any of which we could live with as a main ride if we had to. We also have a very nice pair of 14" K Con hats which are dark and jazzy, but still cut very well in a big band situation and also works well for pop and light rock and country. But generally, other than these we avoid modern Zildjians. If I'm going to buy new or "modern", it's usually Bosphorus (no surprise there) or AGOP. In fact my son's favorite left side ride when he gigs is a 20" Bosphorus Hammer with 2 rivets. Thin, dark, and trashy with a very woody stick sound and great definition.

I think there were/are some gems in there and you have to admit that the versitility of the A series for just about anything from light lounge music to death metal is formitible. I think that 19" med thin I have in an example of one of the 'duds' for sure. It is loud and cuts bit the sound is very gongy on that one. I definately prefer the thins and paper thins, but I do have a 16" med thin that sounds quite good as wel as an 18" thin that also sounds quite good.

I think the K's from the same era (that I have tasted) are clangy and trashy at the same time. Light playing is just awful to my ears; they may be totally different (and I expect so) under full hilt attacks...

I'll have to give those a closer look/listen. I generally shy away from the "custom" anything from Zildjian, but I should be fair and try everything I can get my sticks on...

I think this last piece above may sum it up...

That is a deadly accurate statement for sure... One man's trash is another man's treasure!

And this brings up an intereting point: If you had five old K Cons (the real ones) all 17 inch and all the same weight (within 10-20 grams) I think those would also sound quite wildly different. Don't you think? Or were the hand hammered ones really that consistent? I have to imagine that despite the variance in your example above, that has to be far more consistent than the 'old days'.

I like this last bit a lot. But, I think I may bring my cymbal bag to the factory and do my dirty work there. I hear they will re-stamp old cymbals so I can freshen thm up too...

I totally understand that. I'm not trying to imply a modern vintage is in any way 'better' than a true vintage cymbal, other than availability and (in some cases) price. All I am wondering is can a musical Zildjian be made today, that has the complex tones of the A line but a touch of darkness to the edges? The current white-bread A Zildjians made in 2012 are predictable and for the most part consistent enough that if you cracked one you could replace it and survive. I tried some brand new new-beats and they sound really damn good, like the ones I have. If they were 13's I probably would have grabbed them...

Used 80's vintage K's, same vintage as my A's. I am curious about these k constantinoples which is part of the driver for this thread in fact (those and the A Cie. ones). I just don't see them around much to try out, and never second hand (being cheap and all...).Toilet