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I am a guitarist surrounded by drummers...Help, found Vintage Ludwig Kit

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My first post, so here we go... (oh, and thanks ahead of time, I did a lot of searching here before I bought them)

I have been wanting a drum set for years just to have around to jam with and do some recording. I knew I was going to go used, as I am a guitarist primarily. I like minimalist drum kits because I am not a very good drummer (for now :) ), and they are small. Always wanted a Ringo-esque sized kit because some of my favorite songs were written with that three (four?) piece kit.

Fast forward to a few days ago... Found an “Oyster Blue Pearl” kit on Craigslist, that I have since sort of worked out is a 1970 “DownBeat” kit. I have down some research that I was hoping you pros might be able to help a mere guitarist confirm or deny. :) It has no serial numbers on its blue/olive badges, and the paper tags (which have fallen off, but I still have) say:

Date – 56717 (all three say this)

Models – 920, 948, 942.

I can't find any dates stamped on the inside.

Coverings are very nice. The seams are not coming undone, no deep scratches, pretty shiny actually....

It's a 20” bass, 12” tom, 14” floor tom – when you measure the SHELL's diameter, not the rings. Seems to correspond to a “Downbeat” kit, which I think shares a lineage with Ringo's setup? It is the “bowling ball” covering, which looks much better in person to me than in pics...

What seems original to a novice:

the throne

the hi-hat stand

the bass drum (someone unfortunately added the tom hardware to it... ugh...)

the tom

the floor tom

two of the cymbals... (two are “avedis” zildjian, never heard of avedis til I bought the set?)

third cymbal? (did research, it says Ludwig, but is stamped “made in italy” underneath. Tosco is a phrase I found...)

They were found by the person I bought them from at a yard sale; he said he bought them from a lady who bought them new and played Jazz with them... What a story!

Also came with:

a chinese tom and floor tom (going to my 4 year old nephew to annoy my brother)

a pearl export snare and stand

a nice pearl boom cymbal stand

a junky taiwan cymbal stand that is falling apart

a “planet z” made in the usa 20” ride (seems nice)

MY QUESTIONS:

1) can you guys/gals please look at the heads and tell me if they are decent? I have no idea.

2) I am missing the original bass drum pedal and snare. I was told by someone that it original had a chrome “supra-phonic” snare? They seem to go for around $200 with chrome intact. Does that price sound decent? What size snare should I look for? Would you find the original pedal or stay with this one?

3) How do I clean the covering without hurting it? Mild dish soap? Can I use chrome polish on the hardware? If so, will it hurt the covering if I accidentally get chrome polish on it?

4) The bass drum sounds like I put the pedal next to a 55-gallon, empty metal drum. Sounds horrible. Should I put a pillow in there? Any good youtube vids to watch to learn how to tune it? Should I get a ported (or can you add a port) outer head so I can play around with the stuffing without removing the outer head?

5) I am missing the screws or tensioners? For the bottom of the floor tom ( I have the ring), how do I know which ones to buy?

6) I am missing one T-screw(?) and little clamp, ring grabbing thing (sorry, guitarist) for the bass drum. Hard to find?

7) I don't plan to play very hard, can I use the vintage cymbals or should I store them for posterity?

8) There are no heads on the bottom of the tom or the floor tom. Sounds ok to me, should I go ahead and put heads back there?

9) I like “warm” sounding drums, what heads would you use when I eventually change everything out?

10) How do you avoid paint damage to the bass ring where you clamp the bass pedal on? Rubber?

11) How do you find replacement rubber feet for the bass drum and various places? Some of the "legs" are rectangular, some square, and different sizes...

Any general advice? I LOVE the sound. Honestly, I have been around a lot of very nice drums, but these are warm and quite nice. (except for the bass, sounds horrible :) )

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU -- Going to keep these forever...

[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v66/mweasel/ludwig/IMG_2174copy.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v66/mweasel/ludwig/IMG_2173copy.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v66/mweasel/ludwig/IMG_2172copy.jpg[/IMG]

Surrounded by drummers here! (I am a guitarist.)
-------------------------------------

1970/71? Ludwig Downbeat in Blue Oyster Pearl
http://www.vintagedrumforum.com/showthread.php?t=33677
Posted on 12 years ago
#1
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[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v66/mweasel/ludwig/IMG_2171copy.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v66/mweasel/ludwig/IMG_2169copy.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v66/mweasel/ludwig/IMG_2168copy.jpg[/IMG]

Surrounded by drummers here! (I am a guitarist.)
-------------------------------------

1970/71? Ludwig Downbeat in Blue Oyster Pearl
http://www.vintagedrumforum.com/showthread.php?t=33677
Posted on 12 years ago
#2
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[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v66/mweasel/ludwig/IMG_2167copy.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v66/mweasel/ludwig/IMG_2164copy.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v66/mweasel/ludwig/IMG_2161copy.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v66/mweasel/ludwig/IMG_2159copy.jpg[/IMG]

Surrounded by drummers here! (I am a guitarist.)
-------------------------------------

1970/71? Ludwig Downbeat in Blue Oyster Pearl
http://www.vintagedrumforum.com/showthread.php?t=33677
Posted on 12 years ago
#3
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First off - Welcome

Second - Cool1

Nice score there. Shame about that added mount, but it will be an awesome player. Those shells are killer - some might say the most desirable that Ludwig made, but I'm sure all the Luddy guys have their favorites. Awesome finish too - I've got a kit in that finish and it certainly has its following.

So, some more good news is that the bass drum hoops are easily restored with some patience and a some spray paint. There are several threads on how to do this. The T-rod and bass drum claw are easily obtained, so no worries there. Find yourself a nice old speed king pedal - they can be had relatively inexpensively, but just make sure to find one that isn't too worn out. Keep us posted on your progress!

Regarding your questions:

1) The heads look good, but you'd be best served to put them aside (but keep them) and put on some fresh heads. The old ones will sound a bit dead.

2) Geab a speed king as I mentioned. grab a nice period correct 14" Supraphonic. $200 is about the going rate, but you might find one for less if you are patient. I don't mind the flaking ones if the price is right - they sound just as good.

3) Clean the wrap with a very diluted mixture of mild soap and water... damp cloth, not wet. You can follow up with car wax and they'll pop! I also really like Novus plastic polish - search for threads on here, it really works wonders!

4) Grab some new heads. The resonant might still be fine. If you want a punchier sound, try a felt strip, or try an Aquarian Superkick 2 or an Evans Emad 2. It's all personal taste. A good drum shop will actually put some heads on your drum and let you test them out in store before you buy.

5) If you're not worried about originality, just buy some aftermarket ones at your local drum shop. To avoid mistakes, bring in one of the top ones and match the length.

6) As mentioned above, very easy to find. Just be patient. Not patient? - FeeBay will work for that.

7) I'd use them, but that's me. Just don;t thrash on them and they'll be fine.

8) I'd put the heads back on the bottoms. Totally personal preference, but it also keeps the shells from going out of round (may have already happened, but hopefully not).

9) You will get a different answer from everyone on this. Again, a good drum shop will let you test a few head combinations in store before you buy. Start with the basics (Coated Amb's top and bottom, Emp top and Amb bottom, etc, and go from there. All depends on what you want to hear out of them. They're small sizes (ultra cool, btw), so I wouldn't get into the deader / pre-muffled heads.

10) Repaine the hoops (see other threads on this), and then you can always use the special rubber hoop saver type things that are sold in stores if you wish.

11) Head on over to your drum shop and grab what fits and keep the originals aside. If you need originals, then they are also available, but will cost you a bit. I you prefer function, go for the new ones.

Posted on 12 years ago
#4
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Welcome

Great kit to start out with, really nice complete set up. Sad about the extra bass mount, but such is life.

To clean it up I'd use a lil dish soap, hot water and a terry cloth wash rag that is just barely damp on the wrap and a once over on the chrome. DAMP is key here no need to flood the surface.

On the chrome try some windex soaked paper towel to being back the sparkle.

The bass hoops are a quick easy resto. Pull them off, get some painters tape to cover the inlay and rattle can the black parts...well..black.

If you really want to bring it back to glory, disassemble the drum and all its hardware. Clean and wax the drum shells and use some chrome polish on the hardware.

Then re-assemble.

The missing stuff is easy to obtain, make an add in the wanted section here on the forums.

As for heads, what do the playing areas look like? Pitted? If not then you should be good after a proper tuning. But...heads are a wise investment. Coated Ambassadors up top, clears on the bottom.

As for the bass drum "metal drum" sound, I'd put a strip of felt on the batter head to kill some of the resonance then play with tuning. You "could" put a pillow in it, but then it gets all dead.

The Pearl pedal, while not "correct" will do the job. If it works right no need to change it out. However a good Speedking Pedal is a wonderful thing.

Hope this helps.

Posted on 12 years ago
#5
Posts: 1525 Threads: 127
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Nice find! Darn, who put that ugly ass mount on there? Take that off. Rather have holes than that. The holes won't be that noticeable and you can eventually possibly fix them so they won't look bad. The hoops are easy.

Sand them off a little. I would not worry about getting all the paint off unless you want to do a lot of work that won't really be noticeable. Put masking tape over the wrap insert. If you can't find the eaxact tape to cover just the insert strip, cover it and carefully use a exacto knife to cut then strip off the excess tape. paint them. I have restored several pairs of hoops like that and I used the $1 Black gloss paint from WalMart. They looked brand new.

Posted on 12 years ago
#6
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From Mspartacus

First off - WelcomeSecond - Cool1Nice score there. Shame about that added mount, but it will be an awesome player. Those shells are killer - some might say the most desirable that Ludwig made, but I'm sure all the Luddy guys have their favorites. Awesome finish too - I've got a kit in that finish and it certainly has its following.

Wow, the most desirable! Very cool. I just went for what I liked.

So, some more good news is that the bass drum hoops are easily restored with some patience and a some spray paint. There are several threads on how to do this. The T-rod and bass drum claw are easily obtained, so no worries there. Find yourself a nice old speed king pedal - they can be had relatively inexpensively, but just make sure to find one that isn't too worn out. Keep us posted on your progress!

Very interesting about the paint. Very different from the guitar world where you NEVER touch original finish. I can definitely handle the restoration of those.

Regarding your questions:1) The heads look good, but you'd be best served to put them aside (but keep them) and put on some fresh heads. The old ones will sound a bit dead.2) Geab a speed king as I mentioned. grab a nice period correct 14" Supraphonic. $200 is about the going rate, but you might find one for less if you are patient. I don't mind the flaking ones if the price is right - they sound just as good.

I think I will keep the bass heads for now; they have no dents, aren't even discolored. But, I would like to do the toms. My budget is limited, so the bass will have to wait.

Concerning the pedal and the snare, I would really like to get both at some point. The kit doesn't look right to me with the black Pearl Export it has now, although cosmetic issues like that aren't super high on the priority list. The Pearl sounds good to my guitarist's ears though. The pedal I wanted to see if it functioned well or was an antiquated design. Seems that people like it fine, so it is on my to do list now. :) Time to start saving for the snare. Is there a certain depth for the 14" snare? Not sure if they made several depths etc... Thanks.

3) Clean the wrap with a very diluted mixture of mild soap and water... damp cloth, not wet. You can follow up with car wax and they'll pop! I also really like Novus plastic polish - search for threads on here, it really works wonders!4) Grab some new heads. The resonant might still be fine. If you want a punchier sound, try a felt strip, or try an Aquarian Superkick 2 or an Evans Emad 2. It's all personal taste. A good drum shop will actually put some heads on your drum and let you test them out in store before you buy.

Good to know, thanks. I will do the toms (top and bottom) as soon as I can.

5) If you're not worried about originality, just buy some aftermarket ones at your local drum shop. To avoid mistakes, bring in one of the top ones and match the length.6) As mentioned above, very easy to find. Just be patient. Not patient? - FeeBay will work for that.

Ha, don't know why it didn't occur to me to bring one of the top ones. :)

7) I'd use them, but that's me. Just don;t thrash on them and they'll be fine.8) I'd put the heads back on the bottoms. Totally personal preference, but it also keeps the shells from going out of round (may have already happened, but hopefully not).

Cool.

9) You will get a different answer from everyone on this. Again, a good drum shop will let you test a few head combinations in store before you buy. Start with the basics (Coated Amb's top and bottom, Emp top and Amb bottom, etc, and go from there. All depends on what you want to hear out of them. They're small sizes (ultra cool, btw), so I wouldn't get into the deader / pre-muffled heads.10) Repaine the hoops (see other threads on this), and then you can always use the special rubber hoop saver type things that are sold in stores if you wish.

Is Amb or Emp a brand or model? Ambassodor and Emperor? Sorry, guitarist. :) I did some quick reading on Evans and Remo...

11) Head on over to your drum shop and grab what fits and keep the originals aside. If you need originals, then they are also available, but will cost you a bit. I you prefer function, go for the new ones.

Cool, didn't know drum shops would have them.

Thank you for your time, I know it took a while...

Surrounded by drummers here! (I am a guitarist.)
-------------------------------------

1970/71? Ludwig Downbeat in Blue Oyster Pearl
http://www.vintagedrumforum.com/showthread.php?t=33677
Posted on 12 years ago
#7
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From Shawn M

WelcomeGreat kit to start out with, really nice complete set up. Sad about the extra bass mount, but such is life.To clean it up I'd use a lil dish soap, hot water and a terry cloth wash rag that is just barely damp on the wrap and a once over on the chrome. DAMP is key here no need to flood the surface.On the chrome try some windex soaked paper towel to being back the sparkle.The bass hoops are a quick easy resto. Pull them off, get some painters tape to cover the inlay and rattle can the black parts...well..black.If you really want to bring it back to glory, disassemble the drum and all its hardware. Clean and wax the drum shells and use some chrome polish on the hardware.Then re-assemble.The missing stuff is easy to obtain, make an add in the wanted section here on the forums.As for heads, what do the playing areas look like? Pitted? If not then you should be good after a proper tuning. But...heads are a wise investment. Coated Ambassadors up top, clears on the bottom.As for the bass drum "metal drum" sound, I'd put a strip of felt on the batter head to kill some of the resonance then play with tuning. You "could" put a pillow in it, but then it gets all dead.The Pearl pedal, while not "correct" will do the job. If it works right no need to change it out. However a good Speedking Pedal is a wonderful thing.Hope this helps.

Shawn,

Thanks for replying. Interesting to hear that the original Pedal is a wonderful thing. Knowing next to nothing about drums, I figured it would be an old design and not used other than for vintage-ness. I will keep your ideas in mind. Thanks.

Surrounded by drummers here! (I am a guitarist.)
-------------------------------------

1970/71? Ludwig Downbeat in Blue Oyster Pearl
http://www.vintagedrumforum.com/showthread.php?t=33677
Posted on 12 years ago
#8
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From vibes

Nice find! Darn, who put that ugly ass mount on there? Take that off. Rather have holes than that. The holes won't be that noticeable and you can eventually possibly fix them so they won't look bad. The hoops are easy. Sand them off a little. I would not worry about getting all the paint off unless you want to do a lot of work that won't really be noticeable. Put masking tape over the wrap insert. If you can't find the eaxact tape to cover just the insert strip, cover it and carefully use a exacto knife to cut then strip off the excess tape. paint them. I have restored several pairs of hoops like that and I used the $1 Black gloss paint from WalMart. They looked brand new.

Very excited about finding them too. I have no idea who put the mount there. It is a pretty old school looking mount, sort of a ball and socket design that uses a drum key to adjust it etc.

I am a woodworker as a hobbiest, so I am looking forward to redoing the hoops. I will search for old threads when the time comes, but did you use primer or just spray right on the wood? Gloss/semi-gloss?

So weird as a vintage guitar guy to be rattle canning a vintage piece. :)

Surrounded by drummers here! (I am a guitarist.)
-------------------------------------

1970/71? Ludwig Downbeat in Blue Oyster Pearl
http://www.vintagedrumforum.com/showthread.php?t=33677
Posted on 12 years ago
#9
Posts: 6524 Threads: 37
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Hang on to those hats !! That color sound perfect for Rock !!

It`s a drum,.....Hit It !!

.....76/#XK9207 Phonic Sound Machine D454/D-505 snares !i
Posted on 12 years ago
#10
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