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Star Drums?

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From meinl

the only thing that is different from what I can tell is the large t-screws for the claws are a different from what pictures I have seen **two odd holes and mounted on the holes are the places for the kick spurs which look like star to me.** [COLOR="Red"]Need pix here[/COLOR]As far as the claws go they might have been replaced. You can buy identical claws and t-screws as are on both the white hall drumset I got and this one for fairly cheap online. [COLOR="red"]In order to replace the original Ts with the Pearl style, you also have to replace the inserts as the Star threads are really different from these. The only way to keep the original inserts would be to find the appropriate tap and re-cut them, and that would be more of a pain than going to the music store/drum shop and just buying the correct matching parts.[/COLOR]

See above for info in red.

"Ignorance may be overcome through education. Stupidity, however, is a lifelong endeavor." So, educate me, I don't likes bein' ignant...
"I enjoy restoring 60s Japanese "stencil" drums...I can actually afford them..."I rescue the worst of the old valueless drums for disadvantaged Children and gladly accept donations of parts, pieces and orphans, No cockroaches, please...
http://www.youtube.com/user/karstenboy
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Posted on 12 years ago
#11
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Hello,

Sorry for dropping of the map here. I was on a missions trip helping out with an orphanage in the mountains of Central America.... and well they don't have cell service much less internet... So hence well sorry it took so long to reply....

Anyways here are the other pics you guys wanted I believe these fullfills all the ones asked for. If you need any others let me know.

Thanks so much again and really sorry for the really late reply here...

If you give a man a fire he will be warm for a day....
If you set a man on fire he will be warm for the rest of his life...
Posted on 12 years ago
#12
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Here is one more pic this is the inside of the kick and it is the odd whole where the kicks spurs are mounted.

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If you give a man a fire he will be warm for a day....
If you set a man on fire he will be warm for the rest of his life...
Posted on 12 years ago
#13
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Hey there Matthias,

Welcome!

You were asking if these were something worth hanging onto. As I first saw the first pics of your kit, I said to myself - "uh....Hell yeah!" That kit is a beauty-----if you want it----. You see, if you take the time to disassemble all the parts of these drums and clean them all, you will be amazed at how beautiful they will look when you get it all put back together. Then, if you learn how to tune them and spend a little money on good heads, the heads will last a good couple years (depending on how much you play) and when you follow some techniques explained in here, you will be VERY pleased at how good these drums can sound.

There was a thread in this category about 2 weeks ago now that was called "Tips on tuning MIJ drums" or something like that. That thread really took off and now is loaded with great advice on tuning these. These drums are well known for their warmth, and only fall short in the area of attack and projection. But, for jazz, projection is not so much an issue and the warmth is right up jazz's alley so these are very preferred for jazz.

One thing I want to tip you off on is that these seem to really tune and sound well with SINGLE PLY heads. One place you can get very affordable single ply heads is through Jammin Sams. It is a company that has been around for decades and usually specialize in wrap and parts, but also offer off brand or no name single ply heads AT A DISCOUNT. I have some of these heads, but have not installed them yet. Some friends of mine have used them and say they are fine/great. Just to give you an idea, these come at about 5-6 buc a piece instead of 12 for Remos/comparable named brands that have alot of overhead in advertising (hence the mark-up).

One more tip-wood hoops for the BD make a big difference in BD sound. It gives it so much more warm body and punch, as the wooden hoops essentially become an extension of the shell. For someone on a budget, you may select buying some from HB Drums - they offer new birch hoops, lacquered - which will not have the inlay, but will still be very pretty and are only $18each.

Like I said, if you spend some time (the more - the better the results) by cleaning, spend the money buying some heads (very affordable) and learn good tuning techniques (use timbre pitching -that's by vote; also wood hoops for the BD when you can afford it).....then you will no doubt fall totally in love with this kit and be the recipient of many compliments. American made drums feature great quality, slightly superior sound, and can be beautiful, but the MIJs can totally meet the needs (especially for JAZZ) and in fact feature better wrap selection. I know those drums look even better in person-so I must say-gorgeous!!!!

Have fun! Welcome to VDF!

John

I had a great day! Instead of sleeping in and wasting the day, I got up at 8 and I had all my slacking done by noon!

2Timothy1:7
Posted on 12 years ago
#14
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Hey drummer John,

Thanks for all the info!

When I got them I was kinda wondering wether I had made a mistake... when I got them I got a Whitehall tiger wrap (kick and tom) these are pure beauty I wish I had the whole set! I will try and upload a photo in a bit....

So I got the two whitehall pieces and some hardware. This unknown kit (with some hardware) the two kick pedals, two vintage japanese cymbals, and three cymbal stands...

I paid $250 for it all... not sure if that was a good deal... When I got home I wondered I had made a big mistake, because really I love drums; I have never restored them though and they looked in rough shape (as far as the hard ware goes)

Some new heads though would do it... right now they sound awful, but then again all the heads are really old. Thanks forthe JamminSams info I think I will get some heads from them since they are cheap....

I guess I have usually been a fan of newer drums because it usually has better working hardware. My favorite brand I have played would have to be a premier one of my drum teachers had... Although I did get to play (at the time) one of the coolest one of kind sets in the world [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6_bzKcbiFg[/ame]

He wasn't my direct teacher, but I have learned a lot from Him he is a really cool guy and I always love his perspectives on playing, technique, and attitude. My drum teacher was taught by him, but know they teach together and share the same practice space hence Steve would keep a lot of kits there so I have got to play a lot of really nice kits. Not sure if any of you gys know the jazz band "the bad plus" David King the drummer for them taught steve... the jazz skills have not transcended to me... hahaha

enough about all that boring stuff though...

So for a couple months i was trying to sell these drums I got... but I think I will keep them since no one was giving much for them and I think they are probably worth more to me than the money and well I do actually need my own set (I have cymbals, snares, and stands, but the pearl export toms and kick I have currently I have been borrowing) I want to give them back before I head to college. I have always thought it would be really cool to have a kit with two kick drums, but have them tuned differently (that way you can't just go to town with the double kick) it would be a lot harder to play, but I think it would be interesting to try...

(anyways what do I know I am still a youngin')

As far as hardware goes this stuff is pretty old and well some it show it. Some of the t-screws don't go in right as in I put it in and try screwing and it just keeps going around and around, but it doesn't get tighter and is really really hard to get out! Is something stripped?

Also would it be a sin to put some new modern kick spurs on this? I actually prefer having my toms on snare stands and mounted next to the kick rather than the kick mounts I have... on my current set I have 3 toms, but I only use two because I prefer playing with just two and I can get a flatter set-up.

Also John correct me if I am wrong I believe I already have wooden hoops on the kick drum...

It looks as if I will have to learn jazz... :-)

thanks for all the tips though!

Shalom,

Matthias

If you give a man a fire he will be warm for a day....
If you set a man on fire he will be warm for the rest of his life...
Posted on 12 years ago
#15
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Matthias,

While I will advise you as much as you like, I must disclaim a few things. First, while I have been drumming for 28 years, I have only been learning a great deal more about drums in the last couple years. These guys on here (as you can see by the number of posts) are really the experts. Is their advice better than mine or visa versa? No - nobody's is really 'better' than the other drummers' - rather the best advice for you is advice from the drummer who happens to have your desired sound. That being said, we can give you alot of great advice, but really at the end of the day it is up to you to experiment and figure out what you like best. All of our advice is extremely valuable as it is free and from a source of experience (the best teacher). I know I have learned alot from these guys.

That being said, priorities should always be something like the following:

1) practice

2) practice more

(as far as the drums themselves)

3) well....the following is the rest of it that I can offer tonight......in no particular order unless stated......

Be sure not to damage threads more by trying to force anything. Yeah – definitely sounds like you have some stripped pieces – get help from someone in person – like your local drum teachers. Your priority should be to get things taken apart first, without damaging them. Then, you can clean them up, so that they will work well and hopefully function very smoothly with no damage occurring. Try swapping other parts to check threading, put tension rods and T-rods up to each other to determine threading and compatible threading....use WD-40 (BUT ONLY ONCE THESE PARTS ARE ALREADY REMOVED FROM THE DRUMS---that kind of stuff is not good for the shells!!!!)

Getting back to priorities....If I were you, I would change heads before getting wood hoops. Yes, those hoops are METAL (steel I believe) and NOT WOOD. They have a wrap on there on a metal hoop. While wood hoops will make a big difference, new heads will make a more affordable and significant difference for your overall experience.

Some good ideas on this – depending on what heads you have to use is this:

http://www.vintagedrumforum.com/showthread.php?t=26656&highlight=felt&page=3

from OsakaBop post number 24

I *think* this felt can be bought for very cheap at a fabric store (***OTHER MEMBERS: PLEASE ADVISE***)

OR my post on the same page #27

OR best option is to buy the resonant heads with the 1-2 inch ring on the inside of the head (like Evans EQ3 or EQ4)

Looking forward to the pics of the first drums you picked up (tiger wrap). KEEP THOSE. My advice is to give these complete ones their shake with a thorough cleaning and tuning – the whole treatment. You will grow to love them…..and that will only make the "Tiger Stripe" project that much more enjoyable – in due time…. In the meantime, be on the lookout for the missing drums (floor tom) as sometimes those types of drums (wraps) can be few and far between….though I have seen those on ebay and in fact I bought a 4 piece Red Onyx kit off of CL last summer for only $100---pics coming later this summer once the project is complete.

Those nice new Premiers are a different beast. Their appeal will differ from your MIJ as they are different wood type, and their hardware (while more functional) is only really “nice” because it is so much more cleaner and lubed a bit. Your old MIJ drums can be that functional and ‘nice’ when you put the work in. READ THE ADVICE ON THIS FORUM for techniques as it is abundantly on here.

Cool video. Of course these drums will sound completely different from your MIJs. Believe me, when you put in the time to take yours all apart, clean them up, and re-assemble, you will love your MIJs as much as you dig their’s. If you have not already, read what I said about using Dawn dish-soap to clean your metal pieces.

http://www.vintagedrumforum.com/showthread.php?t=25981&highlight=dawn&page=3

See post number 22

This will take 48 hours of patience, and more patience when you use the toothbrush (then there is the polishing/waxing) – but you will be amazed at the results and the beauty of your parts will inspire you to keep going.

BTW, regarding your toms - you can get that flatter look and feel with ANY mounting. The reason players are using stands for their toms is so that they will not be muting the bass drum with all that weight on the shell. A bass drum with no tom mounting is referred to as “Virgin” and is more recently preferred so that the bass drum will sound best. Of course this is related to how you like your bass drum and what tuning and muffling you are using/not using. Snare stands are fine – or another option many use is suspension mounts with tom mounts onto cymbals stands. Again, the whole idea there is the most resonance for all your drums.

My advice on the spurs…..I would NOT drill new holes and mount different legs, unless you want to ‘marry’ your kit for life – as drilling/additional holes greatly depreciates the value of these drums in the event of selling. Now that I think about it - DON'T DRILL MORE HOLES even if you want to 'marry' this kit. Like (moreso than) haircuts, once it's done, there is no going back. Look this issue up as well (search words like backing plate, spurs, legs, mount, bass) – as the solution for those little round legs/mounts are to use a good backing plate. I think these forums have addressed this issue as well and I may have added my 2cents on that if I recall. Another way to stabilize the kick drum is to use a bass drum anchor on the front. These are not very expensive either.

Have fun and sink you time and heart into these (in the form of patient cleaning), and they will sink their joy into you in return.

John

I had a great day! Instead of sleeping in and wasting the day, I got up at 8 and I had all my slacking done by noon!

2Timothy1:7
Posted on 12 years ago
#16
Posts: 657 Threads: 40
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Meinl, if you would indulge me, take off one of the lugs on the rack tom or floor tom and see if there is anything written/stamped inside.

Posted on 12 years ago
#17
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Just love that wrap. Great drums

...
'68 Ludwig Ruby Red Strata
'68 Ludwig Mod Orange
'58 Gretsch Starlight Sparkle
'69 Ludwig Clubdate BDP
'60s Ludwig Clubdate Black Lacquer / Nickel
'67 Trixon Speedfire Red
COB Ludwig Supra
Many projects
Bunch o snares
Posted on 12 years ago
#18
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Hello,

Thanks for the long reply Johnny.

Yes it is true for the desired sound, but I guess this kit is the one I will have for a while so I am going to try to make it the best sounding MIJ it can be :-) personally I know many people have thier opinions about things being made in oher countries, but hey if it sounds good? well that is what I care about. I mean even my tele is made in mexico (gets a lot a bad rep from guitar players) but it sounds great and plays great. The American cost $700 more! supposedly better pickups and electronics aren't worth that much... anyways back to drums...

I guess I could take the kit to my local drum shop. They are some really really good guys if I do I should buy something... they are more expensive than online, but the service is worth it! I remember when I first started play drums a couple years back the snare I got (a CB percussion) had a whole in the head that had duct tape on it. So I though when I got the set that replacing the head would make it sound better. Brought it in to the store they gave it a whack... (at this drumshop is where all the pro drummers around my area come too) everybody in the store looked up and cringed when they heard it... it was bad... However the clerk brought me over to the heads and told me how each one sounded and what he thought would be best for my preferred playing style then the owner of two drum shops put it on and tuned it for me free. Nice guys :-)

Now I can tune drums though....

Also I really enjoyed reading that thread on tuning types thanks for the link it was all very interesting except for the gasoline part...

For the tiger wrap I included a pic of the bass drum... this set is actually in great condition the wrap is perfect on it!

Thanks fore info on the tip on the tom mounting I have never heard of the virgin kick thing, but it makes sense. Also thanks for the advice on the kick drum riser I like that idea.

The Premier kit I loved I think was from the 80's and in my teachers opinion was the only great kit they made... the only reason I fell in love with it was the deep kick, but I am really starting to like the jazzy sound of MIJ kits kick drums too :-)

As far as the video it is an awesome set and really cool set, but I don't think I would want an acrylic set I prefer the MIJ's over them sound wise.

Thanks also for the dawn dish soap method I try that hopefully tomorrow if I have the time. I also was wondering what did you think about the OSMO Polyx oil they were talking about applying to the inside of drum will it be a significant sound improvement... and is there is something similar in smaller container? hehe

I was varnishing wood this last week and I now know just how far a can of that sort of stuff can go.

Thanks again for the help and I am indeed excited to work on these :-)

Also #cn679 I will see what I can do :-)

Thanks again guys,

Shalom

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If you give a man a fire he will be warm for a day....
If you set a man on fire he will be warm for the rest of his life...
Posted on 12 years ago
#19
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That Whitehall is a beauty!!! Yeah, that may be a challenge to find a FT for. BTW, use this site.

us.yakaz.com

It searches a bunch of stuff NATIONWIDE -- ebay, CL, reachoo, local papers, etc. and can narrow the search to one state at a time (map on the right) ((Giving away all my secrets))

also shopgoodwill.com

Hopefully these can help you widen your constant search for the FT.

While it is not ideal, perhaps you can find that wrap new somewhere and then make your FT (re-wrap another MIJ). Just an idea. I am in the process of making 10inch add-ons for 2 of my MIJs so that they are 5pcs. Those will be completed sometime in the next 6 months. Yes, using authentic MIJ hardware....and yes, would not have found it if not for Mikey777 on here (another great source of wisdom AND PARTS.)

Meanwhile, I understand that most drum wraps can achieve that beauty if cleaned and polished right. That's one thing that I have not done yet. I have tried several products, but have not yet used one that came highly recommended. I just have not had the time. I will have more time this summer as I will then be done with school (for good). Working FT and going to school gets very busy and leaves very little time for drums.

Speaking of these I have not done yet - and to answer your ?

I have not done anything at all to treat the inside of my shells. I have read about several products you can use, but I have not yet done so because of the time issue, but also because I am concerned that it would change the tone unfavorably. Ideally, I would like to buy a guinea pig MIJ tom and try it (whatever I decide to use). I'm just afraid to *try* something on one of my keepers. Meanwhile, as there are many - but the first guy that comes to mind on that issue is jonnistix. I am sure you have discovered his vast MIJ wisdom. He is extremely helpful, kind, and we all have been blessed by his humor! (no implication John, other than the compliment!)

I will probably get around to those tasks this summer. I am also cramped into a standard apartment (along with my 2 kids B&G) and longing for a workshop area - hopefully into a house in the next year or 2.

Let us all know this weekend how the results look. You will be excited to (assemble) your drums as they will look like new!

John

I had a great day! Instead of sleeping in and wasting the day, I got up at 8 and I had all my slacking done by noon!

2Timothy1:7
Posted on 12 years ago
#20
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