Hey Drumaholic, i know him and was going to buy that cymbal but the shipping was going to put me way over my budget. It's in the Netherlands and the owner is a nice guy but he just couldn't get me a better quote on shipping and he really tried every options.
Did you see the ink stamps on this cymbal along with the normal zildjian stamp?
Gary.
In the case of this 28" cymbal I will concede that what we have here is what was described earlier by Brian. This is a 1950's creation that was sold in the 1980's.
If you watch all the way to the end you'll see a lot of valuable information that led me to this conclusion. First the hollow sold stamped logo is indicative of late 1970's to early 1980's. The trademark is either an original from when it was made or it could be one from the 1980's, its not clear which exactly is the case. The full overview of the cymbal is where the 1950's characteristic can been seen. There are several rows of widely spaced hammering on the top-side, which is an indicator of something very commonly seen in the period of about 1955-1961 but not later. If this cymbal retains the original trademark from back then, it would have to be very early 1960's. The modern trademark from the 1980's is tough to distinguish from that one. But if it was trademark stamped later, then this is more likely to originally be 1950's vintage.
When he turns it over you'll also notice the unique ink stamping there. It has from left to right:
The diameter in centimeters followed by the Avedis Zildjian & Sons written in Arabic script followed by the diameter in inches. This type of ink stamp was applied only on Zildjians sold in Europe.
So in this case as least I will readily concede that this is a much older cymbal that was sold decades later with trademark stamp (old or new) and contemporary ink markings.
Hey Drumaholic, i know him and was going to buy that cymbal but the shipping was going to put me way over my budget. It's in the Netherlands and the owner is a nice guy but he just couldn't get me a better quote on shipping and he really tried every options. Did you see the ink stamps on this cymbal along with the normal zildjian stamp? Gary.
Just curious to know:
How much did he want for just the cymbal alone?
I think it was $725 USD. I thought it was a pretty good price for a such a large cymbal.
That is interesting to know about the ink stamp for the European market. I wish i could remember the weight. It seems he told me between 11-12 pounds
Gary.
I think it was $725 USD. I thought it was a pretty good price for a such a large cymbal. That is interesting to know about the ink stamp for the European market. I wish i could remember the weight. It seems he told me between 11-12 poundsGary.
Yes that sounds about right based on what I can hear in how it responds. That to me would be about medium-heavy for that size. And that squares with the designation of medium ride. Rides were generally medium-heavy in weight even though they may be classified as a medium-ride.
Here's my friend Steve with a group of vintage cymbals. Included is the 26" ride that he has. Here in this demo I think it sounds more true to life than on the soundfile he currently has posted on his site.
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Jl_-Al8hG8[/ame]
Although they have made some attempts along those lines, there's only so much you can do to recapture that old vibe with machine hammering. The hand hammering techniques that were used in the old days died with the artisans who hammered them. Nobody in the world hammers that way anymore, and I think it would be beyond Zildjian to try to train anyone in that method without at least one of the old artisans to teach them how it was done. The cost of retraining through extensive aprentiship, as well as the extra cost of painstakingly doing everything by hand again, even if they were motivated enough to try, would be ridiculously expensive, time consuming, and unprofitable. So the Armand series, the A. Zildjian & Cie series, and a few others will be as close as they'll practically be able to come. Although I must say that some of their efforts to create better sounding cymbals that can satisfy the discriminating jazz crowd has born some good fruit. The limited edition series Renaissance rides, and the Thin Dark Crash-Rides are the ones that come to mind as being some of their better efforts. These are far better (for jazz at least) than what they were making when the K. Constantinople first came out in my opinion. Even those have improved with their coming into thinner weights. That may have been partially the result of my constant complaining on Cymbalholic about these so-called jazz cymbals being too heavy for jazz. Now they've finally come around to responding to that by making even the K. Constantinople thinner. At least their crashes are thin enough for crashing now. And for this I give them credit.
one would think, that some of the skills and possibly artisans that worked in the K.Zildjian factory towards the end are still alive and well in some of the other Turkish factories. this whole thread ,so far ,pretty much focuses on 3 cymbal makers but Turkish smiths are known to have worked with Meinl and there are still some fine Italian cymbals. ----- there are about 4 small but major makers in Turkey and many others, from what I have seen and heard. some of the hammering on some of these cymbals is still pretty fine.
one would think, that some of the skills and possibly artisans that worked in the K.Zildjian factory towards the end are still alive and well in some of the other Turkish factories. this whole thread ,so far ,pretty much focuses on 3 cymbal makers but Turkish smiths are known to have worked with Meinl and there are still some fine Italian cymbals. ----- there are about 4 small but major makers in Turkey and many others, from what I have seen and heard. some of the hammering on some of these cymbals is still pretty fine.
Since the Sabian factory was, in effect the K. Zildjian factory, Those artisans could still be building cymbals as we speak...
In the Pinksterboer book there is a picture of Kerope Zildjian teaching at that factory . Apparently his son(sorry, I do not know the name) also was there, so you are probably correct. Supposedly Kerope and his son were responsible for the development of the HH line of Sabian cymbals.
In the Pinksterboer book there is a picture of Kerope Zildjian teaching at that factory . Apparently his son(sorry, I do not know the name) also was there, so you are probably correct. Supposedly Kerope and his son were responsible for the development of the HH line of Sabian cymbals.
That wasn't Kerope, that was Gabe.
