In some cases it's just plain misinformation. Strange as it may sound, Zildjian is actually ignorant about many things concerning their own history. That question and answer stuff is written by Paul Francis, their R&D dept. head. He really doesn't know squat about what he's talking about, and he also likes to play fast and loose with the truth. In some cases such as the latter, its done intentionally with the idea of discouraging any nostalgic interest concerning their older cymbals. They only thing they want drummers today take any interested in is their newest creations. Obviously that's because they make their money this way. Interest in older cymbals of past eras does them absolutely no good. If you ever get to see Cragie Zildjian at one of those cymbal extravaganzas they have, try asking her about vintage Zildjians and just watch how quickly her eyes glaze over. She's obviously annoyed when she gets questions about that, and its obvious that she doesn't want to hear about it any more.

While it's sad that Craigie Zildjian doesn't seem to care about the vintage stuff, it is her business after all to sell new units. I think it would be great if Zildjian were to try as hard as possible to recreate older cymbals, especially the K's from years gone by. After all, Paiste is now making 602's once again (albeit not the Blue label ones I prefer)...

I understand the lust for going forward, but sometimes, the old, time-honoured methods just yield better product.

LOL.

I believe the Die in question made its way to the Azco Facility in Meductic. Sabian has no problem making a 31" Ride if you want it. For the limited orders they sure didn't spend thousands on a new tooling.

Although they have made some attempts along those lines, there's only so much you can do to recapture that old vibe with machine hammering. The hand hammering techniques that were used in the old days died with the artisans who hammered them. Nobody in the world hammers that way anymore, and I think it would be beyond Zildjian to try to train anyone in that method without at least one of the old artisans to teach them how it was done. The cost of retraining through extensive aprentiship, as well as the extra cost of painstakingly doing everything by hand again, even if they were motivated enough to try, would be ridiculously expensive, time consuming, and unprofitable.

So the Armand series, the A. Zildjian & Cie series, and a few others will be as close as they'll practically be able to come. Although I must say that some of their efforts to create better sounding cymbals that can satisfy the discriminating jazz crowd has born some good fruit. The limited edition series Renaissance rides, and the Thin Dark Crash-Rides are the ones that come to mind as being some of their better efforts. These are far better (for jazz at least) than what they were making when the K. Constantinople first came out in my opinion. Even those have improved with their coming into thinner weights. That may have been partially the result of my constant complaining on Cymbalholic about these so-called jazz cymbals being too heavy for jazz. Now they've finally come around to responding to that by making even the K. Constantinople thinner. At least their crashes are thin enough for crashing now. And for this I give them credit.

When the "new" K's came out, they were as suitable for jazz as Paiste Rudes!!! Okay- just an exaggeration. However, I could play K's in punk rock quite easily!!!! I know- it's sacrilegious, but it's TRUE!!!

And I loved the "new" K's. But I liked old 602's better for jazz...

Yes those old 602's were really quite something. And the new re-issues are too. I never though they would turn out to be so faithful to the old design, but I was pleasantly surprised to see they were when they came out. I just wish they make more different sizes and types in addition to what they already have.

The secret is that they were able to perform that magic to the new alloy!!!! Yes, it's a new supplier, but the alloy is just as good!!!

I think if enough of us buy, the "new" 602 series will GROW. I wonder if they can do me a black 602 splash?

From one of the Paiste endorsers on another forum who was in the know for some time, Paiste and the foundry made sure they got it B20 exactly the way Paiste wanted it before they went forward.

I'm more of a 2002 guy, but it's great that the vintage 602 buffs have been impressed with the new pies.

I LOOOOOOVE ANYTHING Paiste!!!!!

Paiste is my go-to for cymbals; they hammer out my VOICE when it comes to cymbals- anything from a whisper (thin 2k2 crash) to a loud, singing bell (Signature Blue Bell Ride) and anything between (ANY of the Alphas!!!!)...

I have never heard a Paiste I have hated, and that's HUGE for me!!!!!! I have the Worlds' most sensitive ears and don't like most Zildjians that come across my ears; very FEW Paistes have flunked my cymbal tests!!!!!!!!!

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UxBqLUECLA[/ame]