mcjnic!...

Ah... you're speaking my language, Buddy freak that I am!! Of note: Buddy's FINAL Ludwig endosrement period was from 1977 to 1980... then he continued to use/play his Ludwig's from 1981 to 1982... but WITHOUT an endorsement deal, as Buddy and Ludwig parted company for the final time in 1980. Course BR had to play something!, so he continued to use his Ludwigs... ( and most often without the Ludwig logo on the front head ) ... then he got that restored set of Slingerland Radio Kings from Joe MacSweeney over at Eames, and played those until his passing. So!...

Custom shells? No... Buddy was fond of saying that he played drums "off the rack" that you and I could buy... no mystery. However!... that isn't completely true... he always had the interiors CLEARED with extra lacquer regardless of whether the company he was with at the time painted the insides or cleared them... he always requested a coat or two extra. Other than that, same drums that anyone could buy! Well, with the exception of his Trixon/Vox drums, but that's a whole 'nother story!

Tommyp

Thanks for the depth. You are a wealth, for sure. Do you know which shells those Ludwig drums might have been? Were they the 6ply or the 3ply? That was the perfect time for the 6ply transition. I can't find a definitive answer.

Hello again!...

Do you know when Ludwig transitioned from the 3 ply to the 6? Reason I ask is: Buddy's SECOND endorsement period with Ludwig was with WFL, and that was from 1946 to 1959, and I know this period for BR and his drums very well... then he went to Rogers!, and that was from 1960 to 1966, and this period I know extremely well... ( see my Avatar?! LOL! ) ... then Trixon/Vox... then Fibes... then finally to Slingerland, which lasted from 1967 to 1976, and I know this period extremely well regarding Buddy and his drums, but his final Ludwig endorsement, well, being a BR Rogers guy first, then Slingerland second, and WFL third, I don't know WHEN Ludwig transitioned to the 6 ply shell. It would be pretty easy to figure out what drums he had though, and we can base that on when his endorsement ended in 1980. What was the shell make up at that time? I will say that Buddy was absolutely BRUTAL during his last Ludwig endorsement as he went through drumsets like eating candy! Ludwig had at the ready TWO complete BR sets with cases at any given time during this period as Buddy was always giving away his drums after concerts. There wasn't a lot of love between the two at the end, and I have to admit that Buddy did what he could to cause a little trouble! Looking back on it, it does seem a bit comical... but back when it was happening it was a nightmare for Ludwig! Here's the thing for me too:

I have a 1948 WFL Buddy Rich Classic set... a 1965 Rogers Buddy Rich Celebrity set... a 1966 Rogers Buddy Rich Headliner set... and a Slingerland #80N Buddy Rich set... but I have never been able to find the very drums that you are speaking of!! Snare drums yes... full set from this period w/Modular Hardware, no! Alas... they continue to allude me. Sorry, as I did digress a bit! :-) Oh, and THANKS for the kind words!!

Tommyp

I'm pretty sure that Buddy's late 70's Ludwig kit would have been 6 ply shells, as Ludwig was pretty much done with 3 ply shells by 1976. And like Tommy states, Ludwig Buddy kits from this era are quite scarce...in fact I've never seen or heard of one. There's a great shot of the kit in the 1980 Ludwig catalog, borrowed here from another page of this great website. If you could find this kit, a Model 2030, it would be worth a whole lot of change!!!

[IMG]http://www.vintagedrumguide.com/images/ludwig_sets/buddy_rich/1980_buddy_rich.jpg[/IMG]

Hey Bill!...

In the famous words of well known Johnny Carson sidekick Ed MacMahon: "You are correct sir! " :-D That makes complete sense, and it was what I was curious about. That catalog shot is a beauty too! Interestingly...

I was chatting with BIII ( Bill Ludwig III ) about the fact that there just aren't all that many Ludwig BR sets from this era out there, and did he have any idea as to WHY that was... or ... are they out there, but nobody is cuttin' 'em loose? His answer was interesting, and again makes complete sense: In the 80's, Buddy was still Buddy!, and he had his legion of followers/supporters... but ... as far as the "newer/younger" drummers coming up, well, there were other drum hero's to worship!... plus drumsets had been growing in size at a steady rate too, and the standard BR set up was, well, I guess... old. Consequently, Ludwig didn't make all that many #2030 BR sets... it's that simple. Hmmmm... not what I wanted to hear though, as I would love to find a nice one, but of course, still haven't! Of interest too was that while with Ludwig during this period, Buddy played the SuperSensitive and Supraphonic snare drums almost exclusively, and very rarely played their wood model... although he favored wood snare drums for pretty much his whole career... excluding the infamous Fibes SFT 690 COF of course! :-D

Tommyp

I found it interesting that this official Ludwig BR kit has a different mount than the Modular single arm that Buddy used.

This info is great. I'm putting together an unofficial Buddy kit. I have everything except the two bass cymbal mounts. Fun Fun Fun. Thanks again.

Tommy, I had wondered about that snare...in the Buddy videos I've seen from that era he's always playing a Supra. Is there footage out there of him playing the wood snare?

Thinking about trying to put together that whole kit, the killer is that bass drum. You could find the three toms easy enough...there's enough of them out there to be able to find a matching set 13-16-16. I've also seen the snares from time to time, and one or two B/O badge WMP thrones. But that bass drum is a tough one! A 6 ply WMP 16x24, with a single rail consolette from the late 70's...wow. I suppose the best chance of having one would be to find a virgin 16x24 and drill it for the correct hardware, as most of them had a diamond post mount. And it would have to have actual seems rather than the riveted seams that Ludwig used for a short time in the late 70's, but that I've never seen on Buddy's kit. Finding the hardware would be easy.

Of course the biggest challenge of all - getting that darn WMP to match!!!

mcjnic!...

Regarding the Modular mount vs. the Rail Consolette on Buddy's drums: He actually played both! I have a TON of Buddy Rich media, and I have pics showing the use of both mounts, but I also think that Ludwig, and all the other companies for that matter, reused certain shots in their catalogs that overlapped years, and that is probably the case here. While with Slingerland most of BR's sets had the Slingerland "Set-O-Matic" tom holder, but Buddy also used Slingerland sets with the rail consolette too. I remember one performance I was at in particular, it was 1972, and I brought my camera. The tom holder on Buddy's kit that night was the rail consolette! If I have a chance I'll do some digging through my hoard of pics!... which leads nicely here:

Bill!... you know, I have actually found TWO of the Ludwig Buddy Rich model #2030 drum sets, all correct, and both with the 16X24 bass drums! One guy had no interest in selling... ( I wonder why? LOL! ) ... and the other had been re-wrapped, which greatly diminished the value for me... actually, completely removed the value for me would be closer to the truth! Neither set had the dreaded and hideous... rivets. What a terrible idea that was at the time... I mean they just look awful. I still say there has to be at least ONE of these sets out there that someone will cut loose, and nicely kept too thank you! Realistically though, as each year goes by, it's probably indicitive of the fact that BIII was right on the money: Ludwig just didn't make/sell all that many... well, except for Buddy of course, who liked to give them away!!!! :-D

Tommyp

Thank you so much. This forum is the best. I've visited several and haven't come across this wealth and depth of honest drumming wisdom. You guys are the best. . . and very polite. I sincerely appreciate that. Again, thanks.