Mystery MIJ tom, Star?

[P-pangdrums]

Ok, so here's a picture showing the inside. Looks like a really thin three ply shell... Including a photo, for reference, showing the inside of a 13" star tom with rectangular badge. What do you people think? Not nearly the same or just an older vs newer version?
Cheers/
Jonas

[Ralf]

Originally Posted by P-pangdrums

...
ARCHxANGEL, you say you think it's from the 50's? I've only found catalogs as far back as -61, and Ralf's excellent site says production began in -65! I don't get it, can someone shed more light on this?

Cheers/
Jonas

First: Thanks for your compliment - appreciated!

I state 1965 only, as we have the Tama catalogues starting there.
Most probably ARCHxANGEL is correct with his information. But that is too far gone and as far as I know firmed information (printed on paper, the usual kind of 'data backup' at that time ) are not available - unfortunately.

Cheers, Ralf

[P-pangdrums]

Originally Posted by Ralf

First: Thanks for your compliment - appreciated!

I state 1965 only, as we have the Tama catalogues starting there.

You're welcome Ralf! I spent a lot of time on your site, finding info and drooling over the pictures

I found some Star catalogs starting in 1961 over here:
http://www.vintagedrumguide.com/japa...alog_star.html

Cheers/
Jonas

[ARCHxANGEL]

Seeing the clip mount says it all. That other mount was added by someone later down the line. That actually explains a lot. These are probably early '60s - based on the floor tom leg mounts. If you look here at the '61 catalog, you'll see your floor tom & tom match up.

http://www.tamadrum.co.jp/anniversar...id=1&year=1961

By '65 the mounts they were using for the floor tom legs changed. So Those are no older than '64 latest.

[Ralf]

Originally Posted by P-pangdrums

You're welcome Ralf! I spent a lot of time on your site, finding info and drooling over the pictures

I found some Star catalogs starting in 1961 over here:
http://www.vintagedrumguide.com/japa...alog_star.html

Cheers/
Jonas

You are right. First catalogues: in 1961. First own production: in 1965.
Jeez - my old brain (capacity of remembering) ...

Cheers, Ralf

[P-pangdrums]

Originally Posted by ARCHxANGEL

Seeing the clip mount says it all. That other mount was added by someone later down the line. That actually explains a lot. These are probably early '60s - based on the floor tom leg mounts. If you look here at the '61 catalog, you'll see your floor tom & tom match up.

http://www.tamadrum.co.jp/anniversar...id=1&year=1961

By '65 the mounts they were using for the floor tom legs changed. So Those are no older than '64 latest.

... The strange thing is that there are no extra holes. Should be there if someone added this mount later on, right? Also, the floor tom has the same shell configuration as the newer 13", not as flimsy as the old 13".

[P-pangdrums]

Originally Posted by Ralf

You are right. First catalogues: in 1961. First own production: in 1965.
Jeez - my old brain (capacity of remembering) ...

Cheers, Ralf

Hey Ralf, please enlighten me as I obviously missed something... Was someone else producing drums under the star name before -65?

[ARCHxANGEL]

In 1965 Star drums starter producing Swingstar drums, which we're their own separate line from the other Star drums with various names. But the earliest catalog ( at least with regard to US / UK ) is from 1961. The reason you aren't seeing extra holes is because that second mount with the ratchet style is on there, and that isn't factory installed. At some point an owner of this drum was using it presumably with an older kit they had and installed the mount.

Also - newer and older 13" toms?


Ralf - There is a lot going on with these MIJ's as you very well know, and you focus just on Star. Hopefully once I'm done compiling info and have that book together it'll be a little easier on all of us.

[R.Adam McHugh]

Originally Posted by P-pangdrums

Ok, so here's a picture showing the inside. Looks like a really thin three ply shell... Including a photo, for reference, showing the inside of a 13" star tom with rectangular badge. What do you people think? Not nearly the same or just an older vs newer version?
Cheers/
Jonas

I'm no expert here, but the bearing edges are quite different on those two drums. Is that significant? I'm wondering if Star changed how they did bearing edges over the years, or does it mean it was made by Pearl or non-Star Hoshino? Just a thought...

[ARCHxANGEL]

Ah my mistake - those are two different toms. Well as far as I'm aware the non Star Hoshino never made the Slingerland style lugs as Pearl & Star did. But they did have numerous shell / bearing edge variations. So that wouldn't be a surprise.

With regard to no extra holes, that shell is very much a MIJ shell. No doubt there. So it could be an older one pre-catalog like I had originally thought.

I grabbed this info from their Wiki page -

"The Hoshino company was founded in 1908 by Matsujiro Hoshino originally as the Hoshino Shoten bookstore which mostly sold books and sheet music and then gradually over the years also began to import musical instruments into Japan. Matsujiro was succeeded by Yo****aro Hoshino. From 1929 Hoshino imported Spanish guitars of Salvador Ibáñez é Hijos, resident in Valencia, which company was bought in 1933 by Telesforo Julve, also from Valencia. In 1935, Hoshino began manufacturing their own stringed instruments, using the name Ibanez Salvador, later shortened as "Ibanez". The company had little presence in the Western world until the mid-1960s.

In 1957 Hoshino Gakki manufactured what would be considered the first of the modern era Ibanez guitars. In 1962, Junpei Hoshino, Yo****aro's son, opened the Tama Seisakusho factory to manufacture electric guitars and amplifiers. The Tama Seisakusho factory produced a line of guitars that included clones of several popular guitars, including the Martin Dreadnought. At the time they were also manufacturing Star Drums, available in either the Imperial or Royal models. Hoshino Gakki stopped making guitars at the Tama Seisakusho factory in 1966 (but continued making drums) and from then on contracted outside guitar factories which in the mid 1960s mainly consisted of Guyatone. Beginning in the 70's guitars were almost exclusively manufactured by FujiGen which remains one of the main sources for Japanese Ibanez guitars. "


So they were producing drums & guitars prior to the '60s.