Vintage Drum Forum the best vintage drum forum on the Internet - Vintage Drum History - Vintage Drum Questions

Go Back   Vintage Drum Forum > General Drum Questions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-20-2019, 02:12 AM
vyacheslav vyacheslav is offline
Vintage Drum Guru
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 1,428
Default Anyone else get disheartened at all the greed in the vintage drum market?

Hello,

I hadn't browsed ebay or Reverb in awhile. Tonight I was reminded of why. There seems to be such a sense of greed in the vintage drum market to me. It's everything: kits, cymbals, stands and even spare parts. The bottom of half of a Ludwig 1123-1 hi-hat stand with broken pieces for $95. A run of the mill, red sparkle MIJ in average condition for $895. A Ludwig shell mounted cymbal holder for $129 (new ones, that are exactly the same design are $85). A 70's Atlas Ludwig cymbal stand that's rusted out and has non-original parts for $159. A black, plastic Ludwig wing screw from a Hercules stand with cracks in it for $35. I could go on and on and on and on and on.

I understand that it is very unlikely these items will be selling at that price, but still, why are they asking those insane prices? Ideally, if you're listing it on ebay or Reverb you are, in theory, wanting to sell the item. At those prices, why bother? What ever happened to presenting something with a fair and reasonable price, where both the buyer and the seller feel satisfied? I know in my case, seeing outrageous prices like that turns me off as a buyer, and the longer I look, the more angry/frustrated/disheartened I become.

I know there are still some good deals out there to be had, but they are few and far between. Also, over the last few years, it seems like the vintage drum market has cooled and it's now more of a buyer's market rather than the seller's market it was 5+ years ago. Would you agree? Another reason why the high asking prices just don't make sense to me.

I guess the thing that really disheartens me the most is the whole attitude that pervades so many of those sellers. "This is old and vintage and It's Ludwig/Rogers/Gretsch, so I know it's worth a lot so I'm going to ask an insane price for it.....because everyone else is doing it....and because I'm really greedy and want to squeeze every possible penny out of a drummer/enthusiast, because it's vintage!" I can't help but think that's the attitude so many of the sellers have. Yes, I understand the name of the game is making money, and there is certainly nothing wrong with that, but your local grocery store needs to make money too. Do they ask $9.99 for a 2-liter of Diet Pepsi?

One more point: A vast majority of the people looking for these stands/pedals/spare parts that are insanely priced are going to be well versed and knowledgeable about vintage drums (like us), and will know what a fair and reasonable price is, so who are these sellers trying to fool? Yes, there are the occasional buyers who absolutely need a part or have been waiting to find a certain item for a long time, and will pay a premium for it, but those instances are not all that common. I understand that certain vintage drum items will always command a premium, as will rare/unique/uncommon items, but again, those are rare items and rare circumstances that you won't see every day. It seems like 90% of what I look at, even very common items, are priced at a ridiculous premium. Look, I am realistic. I don't expect to find mint condition 1960's Ludwig or Rogers kits for $500 or a mint condition Speed King for $20. That's just simply unrealistic. However, seeing a 1960's Ludwig or Rogers kit in poor condition with many issues for $3,000 or Speed King with a broken strap and a missing beater clamp for $150 is also just as unrealistic.

It just makes me sad. On the occasion that I do sell, I always price my items fairly and reasonably, so that another drummer like myself will enjoy it and be happy with the reasonable/fair deal that he or she got. I've never been motivated by greed like a lot of people are (not calling anyone out, just as an observation of the market as a whole). It's too bad. Sometimes, Capitalism isn't all it's cracked up to be I guess.
__________________
"The worst thing to happen to drums from the 60's and early 70's was the 80's!"-clubdate64

Last edited by vyacheslav; 02-20-2019 at 02:38 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-20-2019, 03:50 AM
johnnyringo johnnyringo is online now
Vintage Drum Guru
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,370
Default Re: Anyone else get disheartened at all the greed in the vintage drum market?

I see people locally doing the same thing and guess what? They don't sell. Don't blame capitalism, without a free market there would be nothing to choose from. Grocery stores or chain stores have a lot of competition and our in business to sell high quantities of goods, these guys are just trying to make a quick buck on a few items. I also see most of them having the make an offer option. I've seen some decent deals on Reverb, I bought a really clean 8x12 Slingerland tom in a sbp finish for $135. It goes both ways, I've been trying to sell a Rogers kit here and locally for $500 and can't get any takers. Go figure.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-20-2019, 07:49 AM
jaghog jaghog is online now
Vintage Drum Guru
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: chitown
Posts: 4,926
Default Re: Anyone else get disheartened at all the greed in the vintage drum market?

It is the old adage supply and demand we are the blame in a way for hoarding the vintage hArdware , ourself what can we do but bite the bullet and start letting go of some things to flood the market ....but really think on it what good would that do ?
“It just the way it is “
__________________
1968 pink champagne holly wood , downbeat snare, and jazz fest, supra
1961 cob super 400
some nice old bronze pies
67 super classic champagne with 18 in ft




once the brass ceases to glitter, and the drum looses its luster, and the stage remains dark, all you have left is the timbre of family.

Last edited by jaghog; 05-17-2019 at 10:01 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-20-2019, 07:49 AM
idrum4fun idrum4fun is offline
Vintage Drum Guru
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,730
Default Re: Anyone else get disheartened at all the greed in the vintage drum market?

I completely agree with this vintage "greed" thing! I look at prices on eBay, Reverb and even Craigslist and just scratch my head! One of the worst eBay offenders is seller "Counterhoop". Have you seen his prices for Rogers collet plates that are in poor condition? Unbelievable! Next in line is "leecountymusic", who also does business as "thedrumpartscounter". All of these sellers have hundreds of overpriced items that never sell, but keep posting them at the same ridiculous prices. Seems like they'd rather take all this junk to their graves, rather than offer them up at fair and sane prices!

Unfortunately, this causes a trickle-down effect with other sellers, who see these over-inflated prices and figure that their own junk is worth the same. How many of you have noticed this cheap Red Sparkle MIJ snare drum on eBay, with a Rogers Swivo strainer, being listed with a BIN price of $350?!! This has been going on for years now! The very first time I saw it, I messaged the seller to let them know what they have and what it's worth. Do you think they really care? Of course not! It keeps getting listed time and time again, in hopes that some unknowing person will pull the trigger.

Then there is seller Richard King, aka "kingsmusic", who does offer up some great items, usually at very low opening prices. His descriptions seem to cause a bidding frenzy, with many of the final sale prices causing me to scratch my head! The perfect example is a set of, supposedly, a pair of nice 1968 Slingerland #33F flush-base cymbal stands that opened with a price of $24.95. After only 7 days, it ended at $427.50!! WT@!!

I try to sell drums and parts in VG+ condition and get peanuts for them!

I could go on and on, but you get the picture! It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad vintage drum world we live in!

-Mark

Last edited by idrum4fun; 02-20-2019 at 07:52 AM. Reason: spelling!
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-20-2019, 09:08 AM
Mo Tonkie Mo Tonkie is offline
Vintage Drum Guru
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: S of Nash
Posts: 617
Default Re: Anyone else get disheartened at all the greed in the vintage drum market?

No, I like the free market.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-20-2019, 09:27 AM
idrum4fun idrum4fun is offline
Vintage Drum Guru
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,730
Default Re: Anyone else get disheartened at all the greed in the vintage drum market?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mo Tonkie View Post
No, I like the free market.
Yes, I like the Free Market, too! But constantly listing the same junk time after time, and never selling it, makes no sense. I believe that is what is being referred to. There will always to be a market for good, clean, vintage drums and parts. But, they need to be priced fairly if you ever expect them to sell. If your business is selling this stuff, what good is a houseful of vintage items that never sells? Just my opinion!

-Mark
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-20-2019, 10:20 AM
Mo Tonkie Mo Tonkie is offline
Vintage Drum Guru
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: S of Nash
Posts: 617
Default Re: Anyone else get disheartened at all the greed in the vintage drum market?

Quote:
Originally Posted by idrum4fun View Post
Yes, I like the Free Market, too! But constantly listing the same junk time after time, and never selling it, makes no sense. I believe that is what is being referred to. There will always to be a market for good, clean, vintage drums and parts. But, they need to be priced fairly if you ever expect them to sell. If your business is selling this stuff, what good is a houseful of vintage items that never sells? Just my opinion!

-Mark
Sellers with high prices bring out more sellers and products to the market.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-20-2019, 10:51 AM
vyacheslav vyacheslav is offline
Vintage Drum Guru
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 1,428
Default Re: Anyone else get disheartened at all the greed in the vintage drum market?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mo Tonkie View Post
Sellers with high prices bring out more sellers and products to the market.
I like free markets too. They are essential for good commerce. Your statement above may also be true, but if it beings out more sellers asking the same over-inflated prices, that really doesn't help create any competition or allow a free market to work like it's supposed to.


For example, let's say you have 10 grocery stores/convenience stores to choose from within a 30 minute drive from you. If 9 of those stores are selling a gallon of milk for $20, and the tenth is selling a gallon of milk for $15, it makes you think that you're "getting a deal" with the $15 gallon of milk, when in reality, you are still way overpaying.

Free markets and competition are good, because they usually "police themselves" and regulate what the fair market value is or is perceived to be. It just seems out of whack in the vintage drum market, because there are an abundance of sellers (which would typically indicate a buyers market with things selling at or below fair market value). Currently, things aren't really (or at least don't appear to be) selling because of the inflated prices, so in a way, the free market can't work the way it is naturally supposed to.

I'm no economics whiz, but that's just my very non-economics whiz opinion.
__________________
"The worst thing to happen to drums from the 60's and early 70's was the 80's!"-clubdate64

Last edited by vyacheslav; 02-20-2019 at 10:54 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-20-2019, 11:28 AM
Mo Tonkie Mo Tonkie is offline
Vintage Drum Guru
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: S of Nash
Posts: 617
Default Re: Anyone else get disheartened at all the greed in the vintage drum market?

Perhaps we're talking about the difference between hobbyist and dealer pricing. My belief is that professional sellers typically price their goods in order to stay in business. If they can't make enough profit they become hobbyists or go out of business.

As a hobbyist, I've had no problem selling this year and think that higher prices by others have helped me sell- especially with acrolites and supras.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-20-2019, 01:15 PM
ATeam ATeam is offline
Contributing Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 77
Default Re: Anyone else get disheartened at all the greed in the vintage drum market?

I agree that the market has evolved from reasonably priced items to sell right away, to pricing items ridiculously high and waiting it out. But as a potential buyer, you do have the option to PM the seller and see if he/she is open to negotiation, even if there is no "Make Offer" option. It's worked for me on a few occasions on small and big ticket items. I've also found that sellers are more open to negotiating on multiple items at the same time, so if you've got your eye on one particular item, check the seller's other listings too. The worst they can say is no.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:18 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2009 VSDwebdesign