Hi DT! Yes I read through the whole thing. In actuality, Star was building as far back as 1961. We have some catalogs in stock on one of the sister sitess here: http://www.vintagedrumguide.com/japanese_drums/catalog_star.html. And what about using the same production line? It is possible, or maybe since they are and have been such fiece competitors, more likely there was an independant foundry making all of the lugs and other pieces and the lines got whatever was poured when they needed new parts? I am no less confused than when I began reading it. Those funky lugs on the copper kit have also been seen on Pearl stencils from the 70s. As for the Majestics, my kit is a late 60s, I am almost certain they from 68, although I have no catalog to finally get the name or number from. These stencil kits are a maze of contradiction, and it keeps getting muddier and muddier in here. I have been conducting research on several types of hardware as the badges and names of the kits are no real value in determining which company actually built them. I cannot be certain who actually produced the Asama line. As I stated, those lugs, the ones on the auction from France, are, without a doubt, Pearl hardware, but yet is says they are built by TAMA? Who says TAMA actually made the drums? Was it the seller or someone else? I can tell you, those are indeed Pearl lugs as they still use them on sets from time to time today. How anyone could not know this, by doing even the slightest of research, is beyond me. Those showed up enmasse on the fisrt Pearl Exports, and Maxwin and Royce sets in the 70s, and have been on millions of kits since then. So how they ended up on a TAMA set is beyond explanation.

Thanks for the responses, man. I'm not in this alone. I no vintage drum dude. I was just trying to help a 15-year-old Macedonian kid figure out why a Premier kit might say Asama on it. And I enjoy doing a little research if I make a little progress. Then I made the mistake of getting interested.

Personally, I'm convinced that Asama is a Japanese stencil kit, whether TAMA or Pearl.

My only reasons to believe it's Asama is TAMA are:

1) The Macedonian kid had noticed the similarity of his fittings to TAMA

kits.

2) The TAMA-loving woman I mentioned seemed quite sure that some of

the fittings were old TAMA fittings. Course, she wasn't totally sure

it was an Asama kit.

3) The French kit on sale, but you've definitely discounted that.

I've found one other intriguing clue since my last post. It's not conclusive, of course! But if you go to the Pearl site and look at the history timeline, there is an indication that some Pearl drums were once manufactured pretty damn close to the volcano, Mt. Asama. It wasn't at the big factory they built in 1961, or the gargantuan factory they built later. I'm gonna go back and get the details on that, and then I'll add to this post.

OK, I'm back. On the Pearl timeline for 1953 at a post called "Rapid Growth" it talks about a factory with 30 employees in Nagano, Japan. If you zoom in a couple times on the map, you'll see that Nagano is pretty dam_ close to Mt. Asama, a whole lot closer than the TAMA factory in Nagoya or the main Pearl

factory in Chibu (I think). But it said those drums were made for the domestic market, which would not explain how they ended up in, say, Macedonia (for sure) or France (not for sure). The stencil kits were exported, which means an Asama in Macedonia is a stencil kit.

So I'm back where I started, and it's getting light out, so I'm gonna hit the hay. Maybe permanently.

Cool1 And Yes Sir, they certainly are a stencil. However, the set in France is a whole contradiction unto itself. The lugs are Pearl, and the badge looks exactly like a newer TAMA badge....Anyway, If those drums the young man wants sound good, he should definately grab them. And welcome him to this wonderful world of MIJ contradiction. It would be cool to have him join here to begin his quest into our fantasy world, if you know what I mean. Learning for himself how to research his own drums might do something for his growth as a drummer that could lead him to meet some of the worlds best drummers, as they are here, only you never it who you are actually talking to on these forums. He might get bit by the bug..... You know that Bun E Carlos stops by from time to time, and Neil Peart walks among us as well. There are a host of world class drummers and collectors here. And we are down to earth. Now, I'm not gonna say the egos aren't here as well, but it only happens from time to time that they pop up. Have a fruitful search, however I fear it may be in vane, as most stencils are not cataloged well. We can only go on supposition for the most part, and a close study of the hardware.

Thanks for the post, jonni.

Yeah, the Macedonian kid is probably playing that kit as this moment. He believes it's a TAMA kit. He's playing a gig with them Feb. 13 with the best band in his hometown.

He's a sweet kid. He thanked me "from the bottom of my hearth (sic)" for what I found out for him. He's been playing a year, keeps a steady beat, and does OK fills (heard him in a video clip on Facebook). But he's into it.

I do like the song his band was playing

I'll ask him about joining the VDF, unless you'd rather.

And I agree that the Japanese stencil kit thing has "HOPELESS" written all over it.

But I do have one more lead to follow. Later.

jonnistix,

Hey! I think I've got it!

We both agree that Asama is a Japanese stencil kit. Now I say that Asama is

A TAMA STENCIL KIT! KAPOW! I'll tell you why I think so. Then you trash me if you can.

1) My kid in Macedonia and his drum teacher say that his badged Asama kit has TAMA fittings; they believe it's a TAMA set.

2) The woman TAMA collector with the copper-colored kits says, "some of the fittings are definitely TAMA and are exactly the same as are on my Superstar and Imperial Star kits (bass drum mount, tom mounts, floor tom mounts, and internal dampers) . . . . The wrap is a shimmery bronze color I have seen in some early TAMA catalogues." She notes that the "funky looking" drumlugs (which you say are Pearl), the bass drum leg mounts, and floor tom leg mounts (which she thinks are Pearl) are different from TAMA. For now I'll just say that most of the stuff on the kit is TAMA.

3) Concerning the black drums in the French ad, you say those lugs "without a doubt" are Pearl. But you also say, referring I think to Star and Pearl, "since they are and have been such fierce competitors, more likely there was an independent foundary making all of the lugs and other pieces, and the lines got whatever was poured when they needed new parts."

Do the Pearl lugs on the black drums prove they're not Asama or TAMA?

You don't seem to think so. (Besides, there's something else on the black drums we have to look at.)

4) The best look we have at an Asama badge is the HUGE badge we see on the red kit in the last picture I offerred in an early post. My Macedonian kid says that that's the exact badge on his drums.

I have flipped back and forth, back and forth between the two pictures of the RED and BLACK drums. I say THE TWO BADGES ARE THE SAME. They're both squarish, purplish, and the stripes are the same. You suggested it was a modern TAMA badge, but I need you to show me that one. Checking TAMA's history, I see only two badges ever used.

While I can't read a word on the black kit's badge, I bet the word on it is Asama. It's an Asama badge. If the word on it is TAMA, then we have a TAMA and an Asama badge being one and the same. PROOF! If the word on it is Asama, then we have an Asama kit with Pearl lugs, which we talked about in #3 above. (Who in this ad is calling these TAMA drums, you ask? Maybe those who claim in the ad that this is a TAMA kit just think that Asama is TAMA, or maybe they really know their stuff. Europeans may know more about Asama drums because I'm willing to bet that's where most of them were shipped. At any rate, that seems to be where most of them turn up.)

In conclusion:

1) We're saying Asama is either a Pearl or TAMA stencil kit -- one or the other, right? I say Asama is TAMA.

2) The strongest evidence of a link between Asama and TAMA is the copper

drumset purchased by the woman who collects TAMA drums. She is

cautious and says most of the parts on the kit are TAMA. Our belief that

lugs and other parts could be made by and "independent foundary" and

appear on multiple drumsets does not negate this link.

3) The next strongest evidence of a link between Asama and TAMA is my 15-year-old Macedonian kid and his drum teacher, who believe that his badged Asama kit has TAMA fittings.

4) Next is the black European kit. It is badged Asama (or TAMA). Those advertising the kit say it is Asama/TAMA. The use of "Pearl" lugs does not negate make it Pearl because independent foundaries could make parts for multiple drumsets. Pearl lugs do not make a Pearl kit.

5) Many of the kits identified as Pearl in the Japanese Drum Museum are actually Star. They're TAMA, not Pearl. Identification of Pearl stencil kits has proven to be unreliable.

6) The only evidence we have that Asama is Pearl:

a) Pearl lugs on the black drums (that are badged Asama)

b) Pearl lugs and floor tom fittings on the copper drums (on which most of

the parts are TAMA)

Well, that's it. Not ironclad, but what do you think? Did I make my case?

Sounds good to me, they just look strange. I only think the Asama badge looks like a modern TAMA badge in the shape of it. Like I said, they just look funky with those Pearl lugs, and TAMA everything else.And for the European market, there is no telling what they could do. Maybe Ralf pops up to see what he can see and if he knows of these stencils.

So, is the Yamaha kit for sale? This thread just flew. I was curious about seeing pics and such for that kit.

Send pix of those Yammies.

Send me your email,i,ll send them tonite.

jonnistix,

Hold on to your bra straps. I just read a post and looked at pictures on the Pearl forum. A kid named Chino has just bought a new Asama set MADE IN 2003! The pictures are killer, and the badge appears to be much the same as on the red and black Asamas we've talked about.

You could go to Pearl Drum Forum, search for "Asama," and choose the thread that's about "My Asama Kit." (Or something close to that.)

I can't wait to hear from this kid.

Time for a rum drink.