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Wrapping a previously lacquered drum.

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Quick question for you guys. If one was to wrap a vintage drum that was previously lacquered or had a duco finish, would one run into problems with heads fitting? Was outer ply thickness different on drums that were slated to be painted instead of wrapped? Is it easier to just re-lacquer?

Posted on 15 years ago
#1
Posts: 2628 Threads: 40
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[COLOR="DarkRed"]Quick answer: [COLOR="Red"]YES.[/COLOR]

Oftentimes you will run into just that problem. My suggestion: put some heads on the shell before you wrap...see if there's enuff play for the wrap to be there and the heads to still seat properly.

Some other tips:

~ Aquarian heads have the tightest and least flexible metal rings of all, avoid them on this sort of shell.

~ Remo clear heads tend to be a tad wider than their coated counterparts. So if you are gonna go with clears, you are probably gonna be OK.

~ If coateds are what you wanna use...Fiberskyns tend to be a tad wider than the other Remo coateds. Evans J1 Etched also work well in that situation. Or, Ludwig coateds, which have the most flexible tension ring of any head out there. Lastly, Aquarian American Vintage (not to be confused with the Modern Vintage) are marketed as wider diameter...BUT, in my experience, sometimes they work out fine...and sometimes....they don't work out any better than the above mentioned coateds.

~ Some wraps can still be utilized if you have some wiggle room when you test-fit the heads. Onyxes and the Vintage Marine Pearls tend to be very, very thin wraps. Also solids/glosses...and of course Satin Flames.

Forget about Glitters and Sparkles, they are quite thick. Some other Pearls, maybe...maybe not.[/COLOR]

www.2ndending.com
Posted on 15 years ago
#2
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From Jaye

[COLOR="DarkRed"]Quick answer: [COLOR="Red"]YES.[/COLOR]Oftentimes you will run into just that problem. My suggestion: put some heads on the shell before you wrap...see if there's enuff play for the wrap to be there and the heads to still seat properly.Some other tips: ~ Aquarian heads have the tightest and least flexible metal rings of all, avoid them on this sort of shell.~ Remo clear heads tend to be a tad wider than their coated counterparts. So if you are gonna go with clears, you are probably gonna be OK.~ If coateds are what you wanna use...Fiberskyns tend to be a tad wider than the other Remo coateds. Evans J1 Etched also work well in that situation. Or, Ludwig coateds, which have the most flexible tension ring of any head out there. Lastly, Aquarian American Vintage (not to be confused with the Modern Vintage) are marketed as wider diameter...BUT, in my experience, sometimes they work out fine...and sometimes....they don't work out any better than the above mentioned coateds.~ Some wraps can still be utilized if you have some wiggle room when you test-fit the heads. Onyxes and the Vintage Marine Pearls tend to be very, very thin wraps. Also solids/glosses...and of course Satin Flames.Forget about Glitters and Sparkles, they are quite thick. Some other Pearls, maybe...maybe not.[/COLOR]

I've found this to be partly the case when wrapping a drum.....most of the tightness of the head's hoop to the shell has a lot to do with how much of the wrap material overlaps at the seam. You should have some room to wrap a drum that never was previously wrapped. The shells were the same for both finishes, no difference in outside diameter. The headaches you sometimes hear about head fit has more to do with the heads themselves rather than the drum.

I re-wrapped my late 80's Ludwigs, which have always had a wrap, back to its original marine pearl type finish, and have recently started using Awuarian heads on them. While they sound great, the head fit is rather tight on the 12, 13 and 16" toms. 10" tom and bass drum head fit is fine......I contacted Aquarian about it and Roy Burns called me back himself! He stated that they have had the issue off and on over the years with the newer Ludwig shells and that he would send me another set at no charge! He told me to try this next batch and see if the fit was better. Well, the fit was better, but still tight. So it does have a lot to do with the heads and shells together. Remo's fit fine and Ludwig's own heads fit fine as well.....never tried Evans since I am not a fan so not sure how well those would fit.

So its a try it and see sometimes......

Posted on 15 years ago
#3
Posts: 3972 Threads: 180
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That's been my experience, too. I've wrapped quite a few kits and the head and wrap choice seems to be the biggest factors here. I did a sparkle and a satin flame recently...serious difference in thickness there. I totally agree with Jaye on that. I tried several different head selections (Remo, Evans, Aquarian) and came to the conclusion that they are just winging it at those factories. There was so much variance that it just wasn't funny anymore. As far as the shell being a wrapped/painted.......I've never experienced any variance there. I can say that most of the shells I've dealt with had a variance in thickness. But, this had nothing to do with being wrapped or painted. It was just American drum construction at its best. Eyeball it and send it out. I would bet that if we pulled the ol' calipers out and measured the thickness of the shells from 50 different kits on this forum - all from the same manufacturer and the same basic time frame - we would come up with a significant variable. That's not a bad thing. These drums are handmade and as such have a uniqueness to them. I love that about them. You can buy 3 different Slingerland stained kits and they will all have a different feeling shell. That's cool.

Posted on 15 years ago
#4
Posts: 2628 Threads: 40
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From Ludwig-dude

The shells were the same for both finishes, no difference in outside diameter.

[COLOR="Indigo"]Very good advice overall LD, except for this statement...which I have found to be completely untrue when you talk about mid 60's shells or earlier. McJ...sorry to contradict you as well, but you guys are off on this one.....

Luddy, Slingy, Leedy, Rogers.....their painted shells were typically a tad wider in diameter than their wrapped shells. They didn't just grab the same shells out of the bin and paint 'em. This problem seemed to disappear mid-late '60's.....so that's probably when things changed.

I am currently sitting about 10 ft. away from an old duco 14x14 keystone badge shell which is definitely wider than their typical....Also happened with a couple of WFL snares which I rehabbed, if I recall correctly.

Also a duco Rogers Cleveland kit sitting right next to it, same deal....no way can they ever take a wrap.

I can't even count the number of Slingy and Leedy shells which I have done with this problem...a dozen at least. Whenever someone comes to me with a painted or naked old Slingy shell, first thing I do is look for the interior letter stamp...M or P...which is it ? That will inform me whether I have to tell them which wraps or heads they can and cannot use.

If you are talking a pre-70's shell, do yourself a favor and check and double check the head fit before starting, or even deciding on which wrap.

Don't make the assumption that everything was the same back then...you might end up doing what I did a couple of times...proceed with wrapping, put on the hardware, then when it came time to put the heads on...screwed big time. Get out the rubber mallet....or just chuck the shell in the boneyard, curse that you just lost your entire profit on the kit.... and go grab a beer...

[/COLOR]

www.2ndending.com
Posted on 15 years ago
#5
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