Ok I see what everyone's saying- now what years were these canadian Ks made and how would you compare the turkish Ks to the other avedis? From what Ive heard and seen the quality of sabian HHs are top of the line quality/ Ive always been a zealot of vintage zildjians- whether they be non-marked/non-inked crash/rides that could be crashed or rode, or the slightly later ones with the first inked logos... my 18" zildjian works as a ride as well as a crash, but my 20" ping ride has way too loud of a ride ring to crash on...I would love to get a sabian HH, a crash, ride or a crash/ride. .

Here is some stuff, but note that the dates given here are still a bit uncertain (both for the end of the Canadian Ks and the beginning of the Early American Ks):

http://robscott.net/cymbals/k-canada/

You get different dates depending on how you estimate them (first print ad, first appears in printed catalog, first sales receipt from retail store...) and that is still true today if you think of just how many months passed between the first hint of the Kerope series and the cymbals actually being available in retail shops.

Have a look at the link RobScott has to an old article as well, it will tell you a bit more about what Zildjian themselves have to say about the differences between the Istanbul made Ks and the Canadian ones.

Kook,

I have no real idea how to answer your question regarding HH vs A vs K, however, now that you are asking questions about crash/rides and ping rides I can offer some advice.

Ping rides are, by design, heavy rides and their primary purpose is to be played with the tip of the stick on the bow and bell or by using the shoulder of the stick on the bell. Kind of the quintessential mid 70's through late 80's ride sound and still the ride sound favored by the heavy / prog rock types. It's that bright, defined, crystalline sound. It's the heavy weight that contributes to the clarity of stick definition and relatively high pitch. Conversely, the use of a ride cymbal that can be played on the edge in more of a "thrash/crash" fashion generally requires a somewhat thinner cymbal. You won't get the clarity of stick definition but you can create that trashier sound which came back into vogue about the time of groups like Nirvana. Heavy rides don't lend themselves well to that scenario.

Really, the best thing to do is to go to a well stocked music store and just try some cymbals. By their very nature, cymbals are an extremely personal thing, and I tend to think ride cymbals are the most personal of the lot. Finding one that sounds good played on the edge in a crash fashion that still has good stick definition and a great sounding bell may well be your elusive goal but there are plenty to choose from. Everyone will have an opinion but the only opinion that really matters would be your own ears. Turning that information into the ability to purchase a vintage cymbal unheard may be a far more elusive goal.

Ive always played zildjian, and always preferred old heavy ones as opposed to any newer kind. I sold a whole set of zildjian Acustoms and bought old avedis's . But Im so intrigued by the sabian hh's being that sabian was/is an offshoot of zildjian and that the hh's emphasize being hand hammered/ and Ive heard that wuhan was or is considered a decent quality hand hammered cymbal, I had a wuhan ride once and it had a very distinct look & sound.

Proof that Modern Sabians can sound like Vintage Zildjians, but all Hi Hats sound the same to me when closed. :D

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apvIZgyWFFk"]Steve Maxwell Vintage Drums - (Vintage A. Zildjian/Sabian SR2 Hi-Hat Sound-Off Challenge!) - YouTube[/ame]