I don't agree with you. Again, we will agree to disagree.

I wish that they would remake Responso snare wires. I bought "Gretsch" snare wires last year and I really should send them to the Gretsch company with a piece of paper that says "Shame!" on it.

I really wonder if any of the American drum companies are real. If you go down to the Ludwig factory today, are there any wood chips on the floor? One piece of sandpaper in the building? Anyone home? Is anyone there actually "making" drums or is the whole thing what I could do here at my house - buying parts to put drums together? It doesn't take a whole lot to do that.

mastrosnare, yes if you come to the Ludwig Monroe NC. factory, you will actually see real drum shells being built and bearing edges cut, holes drilled, stains,and wraps applied, also Ludwig drum heads being made, you'll also see a factory that at my last visit didn't have an active drummer working in the plant!! and almost all are Latino labor, you'll see boxes stacked from floor to ceiling with metal parts from china!but at least they really make there shells and some fabricating!

I recently bought a set of Tempus drums. Although they are not wood, (carbon fibre) they are hand made by one individual, Mr. Paul Mason. Also, I believe that most of Mr. Craviottos drums are hand made in the USA. There are other small operations that do not use keller shells, but make their own. These guys are thriving in the face of corporate competition. I know Craviottos will be collectible even though Ringo and Bonzo never played them.

"The ingredients are VERY different and will play a major part in how they age." - I stand by that statement.

"These are mass-produced drums for the most part..." - don't edit the statement to make your point.

"I know Craviottos will be collectible..." - no one does. We have no idea what the future holds. We can guess ... it's still just a guess ... though, I do tend to agree with you :). Freekin' amazing drums! But, does that mean it will be a Vintage drum or just an old drum that's collectible? There is a distinct difference. Hot Wheels, Big Wheels, Barbie Campers and Corvettes, cereal box premiums, stained glass lighthouses, needlepoint house blessings, quilts, bamboo chairs, colt revolvers, wheat pennies, etc etc etc. Just because something is old or collectible does not mean you attach the word Vintage. The clothing industry caught heck for this one. Vintage clothing is either accepted or shunned. It depends on your understanding of the word.

This is why I have to disagree and leave it all at that. My understanding of the word is evidently quite a bit different than others. That's a semantic disagreement that cannot be resolved. Therefore, we agree to disagree.

In my book vintage=old. Any other definition is semantical. When I first started collecting snare drums from the 20s and 30s, they were just old drums. Now they are vintage or antique.

"In my book vintage=old. Any other definition is semantical."

dog skeletons

tall trees

crusted pancake batter

NAZI lampshades fashioned from human skin

a reel to reel recording of my very drunk Uncle Jake at Christmas

detritus

a coral reef

underwear you just can't seem to throw away

that oil stain on the driveway

All of these are old - it's semantics ...

And all are vintage.

How about this:

This drum is a 60s vintage drum. The other is a 90s vintage drum. I, however, like 20s vintage drums. The word vintage applying to whatever era the drum was made. Like "What vintage are those drums?".

secretary - "I'm sorry, Mr. Mcjnic has left the building. Would you like to leave a message? Hang on ... I'm trying to find a pencil. OW!!! Damn. I hit my ankle on this stupid drawer. OK. Now, who is this? Please spell you name ... shoot that hurt. Wait. Where the hell is my pad? SUSAN!!! DO YOU HAVE MY YELLOW PAD AGAIN? ... WELL GIVE IT HERE! I'M ON THE PHONE WITH SOME GUY AND I'VE GOT TO TAKE A MESSAGE. ... BECAUSE IT'S MY STUPID PAD, NOT YOURS. JUST GIVE ME THE DANG THING, YOU THIEF! I'm sorry, what was the spelling of your name again? I think I missed that the first time. Man, that's going to leave a bruise."