When you hire a carpenter to work on your house, he doesn't grow the trees to make the wood to make the plywood, the major drum companies were the same, at least starting out.

Gretsch put together parts, you and I could have made them in our bedroom if they sent us the parts.

The major supplier for hardware to the drum companies was Walberg & Auge... their stands, holders and hardware.

Everything, the lugs, rims, tom holders, tom legs, stands etc that was on Gretsch RB's, except the heads and shells (that Gretsch didn't make either) was made by Walberg & Auge. That's why it seems that the Camco pedal was probably a W&A, although I've seen it under different names, even Martin (CF Martin?).

I'd love to know more about this but information is... er.... limited.

So when you talk about a Leedy cowbell holder or a 50's Gretsch hi hat stand... those were Walberg & Auge from what I know. Ditto for Camco, Rogers and Slingerland.

Ludwig was until they got the money to make their own.

I love my W&A hihat - this one in the WFL flavor with the exact same pedal part as the WFL Speedking... it's the same as the Gretsch hihat... if you had the money they would have made one with your name on it:

[IMG]http://i415.photobucket.com/albums/pp231/kaaawa2000/WALLYHAT.jpg[/IMG]

The Wally's are small and never break or loose their rubber feet (well maybe one every 30-40 years):

[IMG]http://i415.photobucket.com/albums/pp231/kaaawa2000/WAX.jpg[/IMG]

I can fit my 4 W&A cymbal stands, plus snare and hihat in the top of my trap case and the weight and size of them is about the same as 1 double braced cymbal stand.

I would love to know more about these stands if anybody knows! Their off the wall extravaganza has got to be the Leedy contraption that Sonny Greer and Chick Webb used, if you've seen that... it's Carl Palmer circa 1930.

I put some pics here too:

http://www.vintagedrumforum.com/showthread.php?t=8594&page=3

I am on a constant lookout for info on W&A, and Stanley Spector, two enigmas that time has swept under the carpet.

I know what you mean!

Once (for laughs) I set up my Atlas hi-hat stand next to my Iron Cobra stand. I really started laughing! I'm not knocking the workings of either stand -because they both work great. But the weight and sheer mass was so different, it was really funny to see. I think that one IC hi-hat weighs as much as a set's worth of vintage stuff.

However....I am a confirmed believer in modern thrones! I would not trade my Roc-N-Soc Nitro throne for a vintage one no matter what the weight savings was!Chewie:

Oh yes. We didn't even discuss thrones. As a biker I can appreciate modern things that ensure my bum isn't chafed. However, I just can't bring myself to those (Schwinn) bike seat thrones!

I thought maybe the pork pie round seat in gold sparkle to match the finish of the drums would be a decent nod to aesthetics and comfort.

As far as W&A, certainly you are the maestro, mastro, and know a lot more than I, so I can't even try to answer your questions. But I do like those flat mount stands a lot.

One thing though: I thought Gretsch was supposed to be so unique in die cast parts. How can that be if W&A were supplying? It's one thing to have something done to your specifications, but to have a completely private set of machinery that the die casting would have required???

My understanding is that the Gretsch rims, the die cast ones we all know and love, and the lugs, all the metal parts... are W&A. It could be that they made an exclusive with them, or maybe no one else would shell out the bucks for them. I've seen both on W&A's own drums. Aside from the label, W&A's Perfection drums are often (but not always) indistinguishable from Gretsch - same lugs, shells, everything identical, although I don't know if they were COB.

For whatever reason drum sets throughout history have not been sold with stools... a mystery rivalling that of the Pyramids. It seems that the W&A throne was the throne you'd have used in the 30's through 50's. I've seen the W&A thrones (like Slingerland sold) and they were wobble city... so yes I use a Tama (sorry) throne.

Also, W&A made the sax and other instrument stands for decades too - you can see some of the drum parts on them sometimes.

Here's the Martin pedal:

[IMG]http://i415.photobucket.com/albums/pp231/kaaawa2000/52e9_1.jpg[/IMG]

Here's the first W&A hihat, supposedly the world's first hihat, and (how bizarre is this?) it was still sold in the 1973 Slingerland catalog... I guess they had some left from the 40's that they never sold. Cutting edge 1915 technology:

[IMG]http://i415.photobucket.com/albums/pp231/kaaawa2000/vinhh2.jpg[/IMG]

No height adjustment!

Found this circa 1900:

[IMG]http://i415.photobucket.com/albums/pp231/kaaawa2000/WA.jpg[/IMG]

Yes, that's the main one... "the one".

When I was about 13 my Dad drove me into the big city (Halifax) to buy me one of those at Buckley's Music Store. It's about 1 hr 15 min each way.

I had tried out the hihat stand before, but when I got to the store and tried it I was convinced that it wouldn't go high enough, so we left empty handed.

It was a very quiet ride home.

Years later I bought one and I still have it - they're great. I have no idea what the hell I was thinking that day.

Here's a W&A snare, look familiar?

[IMG]http://i415.photobucket.com/albums/pp231/kaaawa2000/joes10.jpg[/IMG]

Looks like it would require a hexagonal drum key.

I'm the misfit. I like the Slingerland 806 Dynamo hihat stand. It's a nice compromise between the svelt and ultra cool 804 Direct Pull hihat (my favorite of all) and the more modern Tama's and DW's of today. It's very rugged and has an excellent feel and response. Good adjustments. Very solid.

I have not found a vintage bass drum pedal that I love. I found a couple that are just ok. I will still use my DW until I find one that blows me away.

My throne is a very "special" design. It has a cutout in the back to allow for a damaged tail bone.

I really like the Slingerland 33F flush base cymbal stand (and the Ludwig equivalent). I also love the Slingerland 66 Buddy Rich cymbal stand.

I haven't tried any vintage pedals I could handle... unless you consider the SpeedKing and Ghost vintage.

The Ludwig Universal Speedmaster (I'm gonna name my next dog that) is somewhat ok except I've been using oversized lambswool beaters and they are too heavy for it. With the regular hard felt beater it's ok, although the footboard is very skinny. There's some nostalgia in that pedal though.

I think that it is all personal preference......BUT

i play Ludwig drums....and I have tried lots of different vintage hardware and what i use now (and have been for the the past year) on a constant basis (including two gigs a week on average) is CAMCO HARDWARE!!!!! I swear by it!!!!! I have an old Camco pedal with a leather strap...light, quick, nice response and use a wooden beater. I use all Camco flat base cymbal stands.

And a Camco flat based hi-hat stand with the spring and strap.

I also have a set of vintage Ludwig hardware and like them alot too. I like the Speed King almost as much as the Camco pedal and the stands are very sturdy!!!

but again, at the end of the day....personal preference.

Forgot to mention my favorite hi-hat stand. Please, don't attack me, flame me, kill me... It's a CB-700.

Yes I know... but really, it works very well. Single braced, chain drive, so it looks older and all that. I got it with a set of (ahem) import drums and just started using it. Turns out, it's smooth, sturdy and packs up quite nicely. Heck, I've been stomping on it for over 15 years and it's never let me down.

I also own a Mapex HiHat stand which is very heavy duty and I imagine will outlive me... but it's soooooo heavy. It stays in the studio while the CB-700 goes to gigs with me.

So sue me... I play Kent drums, with a Slingerland kick pedal and a CB-700 HiHat stand. Don't even ask me about my cymbal and snare stands... ugh.