Nice thread, and I'm hoping others will follow in, as there's lots of Ludwig Gurus here, and Mike Curotto is probably the best of the best. I know he's a fan of earlier Snares, but I wouldn't sell him short as an authority on this Topic.

In the 50's, like everything else American, quality was usually very good. People here took pride in thier work, and the 50's WFL Drums were very good. WFL II was just a kid back then remember.

Along came the early 60's, and perhaps drums stayed the same, but new inovations started to come to Ludwig.

I believe shell materials did change, and Ludwig (On Damen in good ole Chicago) did in many instances use what they had, tried to keep things in order with costs, and there was always the oddball one-off drum.

Brass was the norm for Hoops, Snare Shells. and of course, back in the '50's, nobody knew of Mylar Heads, as ole man Evans hadn't even dreamed of this just yet.

Note, that both 50's, and 60's Drums were of high qualty, and provided these drums weren't on the Titanic, they're still floating around today, with true, round Shells, and that's more than I can say for some modern Boutique Gretsch, and the like.

From what what I've seen personally, many of the 50's Sets had Nickel Plated Lugs, and these would dull over time. Later, Ludwig switched to Chrome Plating over Nickel/Brass. My best friend had a bought new 57 WFL Silver Sparkle Set. It vanished, being borrowed to a nephew.

Many Drums back then, particularly Snare Drums, had Heaters installed. Yes, Heaters! They threw out boxes, and boxes of these at the ole Frank's Drum Shop in Chicago. Of course, Ludwig was not the only company resorting to Heaters, when Calfskin Heads were in everyday use.

As far as sound, and value, I reckon it all comes down to condition, and originality.

As far as modern Mylar Heads go, I don't believe you'd have a problem fitting brand new Remo Ambassador, or Diplomat, etc Heads to these Drums.

I've been very impressed with remo's build quality lately, having just outfitted my entire set with Coated Ambassadors. Mark

Thanks so much MarkD for your very helpful reply. After searching high and low for the last year for a Ludwig or Rogers vintage kit (can?t stop at one!) I finally ended up buying a 50?s WFL in Black Diamond Pearl. Just one catch, it has to be shipped from the other side of the world. I have never done this before so I am a little nervous. I have never seen or heard of a kit like it in the wild here in Australia. I have to wait seven business days to have it delivered, but I couldn?t wait any longer to spread the good news and search out some opinions and comments. Most of you probably saw the kit I bought on e-bay over the last couple of weeks (I?ll try attach a pic), the fact that it came with the matching 8 lug super classic snare sealed the deal for me. So far I have dated the kit to around 1955 as it has all the correct nickel plated hardware from the era. I am pretty sure it is a complete matched kit, not a mix match, put together. It apparently has no date stamps, according to ?The Ludwig Book? they started putting dates on drums in 1956. It has no internal muffler on any drums, could this have something to do with the Buddy Rich endorsement? I have read on this forum that he didn?t have mufflers on his drums and WFL had the ?Buddy Rich Super Classic? in their outfit line-up in the mid 50?s. It looks to be in great original condition except the bass hoops have been repainted and are missing the inlays and also missing original snare wires. I can?t wait for the big day but I am expecting to get hit with a nasty bill for duty, tariffs & other taxes. I?ll be sure to fill you all in and post more details pictures when I receive the kit. Now I have to start searching for the correct ?button foot? stands and pedals. Let me know if you can help me out, it never ends!

WFL's and 60's Ludwigs are structurally the same. Only difference being Ludwig started painting the interiors white. I believe the shell lay-up is exactly the same. Even most all of the hardware is the same. Bearing edges may have been changed a little but I really don't think that was the case in the early 60's.

Hi Josh,

You won't see much of the WFL or pre-serial number Ludwig stuff like this in Oz unless it was direct import. I don't have actual years and importers but I know Premier dominated the Australian market (with slight input from local stuff like Dandy and Drouyn) up until the beat boom and The Beatles in the early 60's (but when it happened this was clearly massive). But given the huge Brit immigration into Oz during the same period, a smaller city like Adelaide might offer up more treasures than other places.

I picked up a great Ludwig early serial number kit in Sydney around 1982 (never checked the serial numbers but that was a different time). They were relatively expensive and though not wildly rare they certainly not common (and had been "altered").

If you're prepared to wait for the veritable "slow boat to China" I would have thought the amount of stuff you can get in the U.S. at what are probably wildly cheap prices by your standards even factoring in shipping and GST/import duty (would love a heads up on what that duty rate is, btw) then you it's probably worthwhile indulging your obsession that way.

I just bought a kit in the US, shipped it back to Sweden (expensively) and paid duty and it is still working out slightly cheaper than I would pay for a less special vintage kit up this way. I'm lucky enough to travel to the U.S. frequently and have a mate who will take ebay deliveries (up to a point) but I've now taken to picking up a keystone Supraphonic every time I am in the US, taking it back in my baggage (value wise it's below the duty level) and then flip it when I get back to Sweden, probably doubling my money (OK, I've only done this once so far but the theory seems sound so far).

The trick is finding a US seller who will sell to people ex-US - they don't seem to have figured out that they can probably get much more money per piece abroad than they can locally. But, in their defence, having just personally shipped a kit, it is a pain (but maybe a business for someone there).

Cheers,

Thanks Antipodes, I totally agree with your post. You still come out with a better or more sought after kit, even after the duties and taxes, compare to to forking out top dollar for a vintage kit that has been messed with. People seem to demand top dollar here just because a kit is a Ludwig. I'll let you know what the damage is when I recieve the kit but i have been told that 5% duty is payable on any drums valued at more than $1000. Then 10% GST on top of everything (dums, shipping, insurance and duty). A tax on a tax, how do they get away with it? But we're not here to talk tax, how about those WFL's? Does anyone agree is could be a Buddy Rich Super Classic kit because there are no internal mufflers? 1955 because they didn't start stamping dates till 1956? Anyone have any matching hardware they would love to see go to a good home?

Cheers.

No, thats definitely a WFL kit. The legs and tom mount holder clearly show that. The spurs are similar on WFL kits to the later Ludwig ones you speak of, however, the type of mounting bracket is different. Since the mounting bracket is not clearly visible and the rest of it appears to be WFL I can only assume that those are correct as well.

Josh....that's about as nice a kit as Ludwig ever made. Your WFL's, with their mahogany veneers, old-time hardware, big sizes, BDP wrap, are pure vintage Americana. Clean 'em & play 'em...marko

That's going to be one heck of a great set! I want to guess and say that set is made in either 1958-59. I know that lots of drums from then have transistion badges but some still had wfl badges. The badges should read WFL DRUMS, replacing the previous badge that read WFL DRUM CO.

There are probobly date stamps in red ink somewhere in those drums. They can be hard to read sometimes because the mohogany interior and the red don't always make thing easy to read. I think you will love the set!