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WFL and Ludwig

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Hi to all,

I'm trying to help a friend out restoring a kit for him that has been sitting around for years. I'm having a little difficultly in figuring out if this is a true kit or made up . The drums are ,22" bass, 13 tom,16' floor tom with a matching wood snare. (All in Blue Sparkle) . The bass drum, floor tom ,have the WFL logo that was used from 1948-1952 and beyond? .The 13" tom has the 1958-1959 Ludwig Keystone Transition badge. I'm going off of pictures he send and have not seen the kit in person to look at the reinforcement rings and mufflers. He bringing it up in a few weeks for me to work on over the winter for him. I not sure if Ludwig and WFL were ever made in the same shop and this could of come out of the factory in the late 1950s early 1960s this way? Also did Ludwig or WFL ever offer a kit with the 13"-16"-22" drum and matching wood snare during this time period. I'll post some pictures once I get them loaded. Any help would be appreciated. All the Best!

Dad Roadie

Posted on 5 years ago
#1
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Hey Dad R,

Not as much mystery here as you might think. After 1955, Ludwig and WFL were indeed 'the same shop', as that's when WFL Sr bought his name rights (as well as his old Ludwig&Ludwig Company) back from CG Conn ( who also sold their Leedy trademark to HH Slingerland), when Conn completely divested themselves of the drum business. WFL Sr changed the company name to Ludwig Drum Co, and moved the Elkhart IN based Conn operations into his Damen Ave Chicago shop.

Sorry for the long history, but yes, it is possible that the drums have been together since their beginning, but not likely, as there was another WFL badge with slightly different wording before the blue&gold Trans badge came out in the late 50s.

And yes, WFL 13 16 22 kits were called Buddy Rich Super Classics even way back in the early 50s. I have one in gold sparkle, with a matching snare.

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John/Levelpebble

Tama Superstar 81 Aqua bop
Rogers Cleveland BDP (x2), Silver bop, Champagne, Black/Gold Duco, WMP, Blue sparkle; Dayton Red Onyx;
Camco Oaklawn 12 14 20 5x14 Tuxedo WMP
LW 59 SC Blue Sparkle, WMP
WFL Gold Sparkle SC, WMP Compacto
Gretsch 49/50 Broadkaster WMP
Fibes Copper Forte
Remo MasterEdge Bop, Gold Crown, Mondo
Slingerland Conway Black Satin
70's MIJ Del Ray, my first and fav ok I'm lying here
Way Too Many Snares, She Says
Posted on 5 years ago
#2
Posts: 2010 Threads: 19
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To further expound on this topic, the company we know as Ludwig today is actually more an offshoot of WFL than the original Ludwig & Ludwig companies (although certainly related to both).

Bill Ludwig Sr. sold his drum company to Conn in the late 1920s. He continued to work for the company for a few years but eventually left. In the mid 1930s he started over but was legally prevented from using the Ludwig name (which belonged to Conn) so he used his initials WFL for the new company. This is when the Chicago plant on North Damen Ave. that figures so prominently in Ludwig lore originated as the WFL factory. WFL also developed the "classic" lug design still in use today ( although the classic Imperial lug design was developed at Ludwig & Ludwig in the 1930s under Conn's ownership ) and WFL originated the Keystone badge design. WFL was a competitor to Ludwig but grew quickly until their main rival was Chicago's other drum company, Slingerland, which was #1 in sales thanks to Gene Krupa (but WFL managed to get Buddy Rich to defect from Slingerland, telling him that he'd always be second there while he'd be their #1 guy).

In 1955 Conn decided to get out of the drum business. They also owned the Leedy line of drums which they had bought prior to Ludwig. For years Conn operated them as separate companies but in the late 1940s merged their brands into a single line that was badged "Leedy & Ludwig". They put both up for sale. Bill Ludwig Jr. wanted the family name back although Bill Sr. felt it was a waste of money. Bill Jr. worked a deal with his bitter rival Bud Slingerland where the Ludwigs would buy the Ludwig half of the business while Slingerland would buy the Leedy half.

Once WFL had completed the purchase they almost immediately changed the name of the company to The Ludwig Drum Company but they continued to sell their drums under the WFL brand for another 3 years. Their advertising said "Ludwig Drum Co. makers of WFL Drums". They also changed the badges to read "WFL" at the top but Ludwig Drum Co. on the bottom. In late 1958 they began to transition the brand name of their products over to the Ludwig name with a new badge design. The construction method of the drums themselves was not changed in any way during this time, only the name at the top of the badge was different. Some metal die-cast parts continued to wear the WFL brand for years afterwards though, until the casting dies wore out and needed to be remade.

In the case of the drum set in question I bet if you take a close look at the WFL badges they will say "Ludwig Drum Co." on the bottom. The factory certainly would not have any qualms about shipping out a set with mixed badges at the time of the transition. Also 13/16/22 is perhaps the most common combination of drum sizes in the history of drum sets so no mystery there.

Collectors relish "factory" sets but even if the drums were put together one at a time it doesn't make them any less valid as a musical instrument.

Posted on 5 years ago
#3
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Looking forward to seeing some pics.

Posted on 5 years ago
#4
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Hi to all and thanks for the replies. I was able to get my buddy to send photos of the badges. (attached) The 22" bass drum , the 16" tom, and the 4"x14" matching wood snare all have the WFL badge. The 13" tom has the Ludwig . Any thoughts if this could be a WFL Buddy Rich Super Classic Kit? The small snare drum is curious . I'm hoping when the kit gets down here in a couple of weeks I can take some heads off and see if their are date codes to determine it's age . He's pretty stoked about having me restore it over the winter and playing some jazz on this kit.

Thanks again to everyone! This forum is GREAT!

All the Best!

dadroadie

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Posted on 5 years ago
#5
Posts: 2010 Threads: 19
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Based on those badge pictures and what drums have what badges. I'd guess that the 13" tom was added to an earlier set. While a mixed badge set from the factory would certainly have been possible in 1958 the WFL badges would have been of a slightly different design if that were the case. Sometime around 1956-57 the WFL badges were changed to read Ludwig Drum Co. at the bottom and those would have been the badges that might have been mixed in with transition badges during the changeover.

Again, probably a cool set, and even if they didn't all ship out of the factory at the same time does not make them any less cool as an instrument (although maybe a bit less desirable to some as a "collectible").

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Posted on 5 years ago
#6
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