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We care more nowadays

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...about our vintage drums, I mean! ;) Think about it. How many vintage kits have missing internal mufflers, chewed up bottom bearing edges (as a result of the 'concert-tom' fad), broken throwoff handles...basically unkempt? And how many of us, here, are set to put them all back together as nicely as possible? We care now. Back then, people didn't really care that much. Drums were drums.

Of course, the same thing is true about Fender Stratocasters, Telecasters and so on. They, too, were not really considered to be anything all that grand back when they were new. They got thrown around a lot -scratched up and abused. They were "expendible" and yet they were also in demand. To find a nice example of a vintage Fender Strat today is something out of this world! You'll become a "made man" if you find the right Strat or the right Martin flat top...etc. ;) NOBODY back then would have foreseen that!

Drummers have indicated to the industry many times over, that "the vintage vibe" is still ringing strongly throughout the drumming community and many of the current upper-echilon have attempted to answer the call with various lines of vintage-like drums. But, in my experiences with these new vintage drum sets, they tend to fail what represent the vintage sound and feel. They are just too dang accurate and air-tight or something!

That's one reason why a really nice real vintage set is SO coveted among drummers/collectors. There are comparatively few examples of vintage drum gear that wasn't abused in some way. Sets that were sold together were broken up...parts lost (internal mufflers, for example!). Cases seemd to be a luxury that many drummers didn't even bother to use -just throw the kit into the back seat or the trunk -as is- and off you go! Finishes were scratched...paint nicked and chipped off. Drums are cumbersome and so they were stored in garages and dank basements or steaming hot attics -out of the way. I have seen literally every kind of environmental damage that could ever be imagined. Many of you know what I'm talking about, too! You've seen them!

Drums never seemed to have garnered the status of, say, the spinet piano in those days (the piano ALWAYS received first-class status and was usually in a prominent part of the home). Ironically, when I go out to estate sales and garage sales, I see those old spinets that people can't GIVE away now! Ah, but see those vintage Ludwig, Gretsch or Rogers drums tucked behind the old tarp held down by some old tires? THAT'S what we all want to find! And in the SUPER-rare instances where a kit HAS been cared for throughout the years and stored properly...well, it's like finding the pot-o-gold at the end of the rainbow!

So, if you have some nice, old vintage gear, then tend to it wisely and care for it with love. Just think what would happen if these old kits do what vintage Fender guitars did! In both the case with vintage guitars and vintage drums, the thing is that....they will never build them like that ever again...and that is part of their attraction to collectors -anything that one can't have is exactly what one will end up wanting!

Have a great week!Mister T

"God is dead." -Nietzsche

"Nietzsche is dead." -God
Posted on 17 years ago
#1
Posts: 388 Threads: 49
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ahmen to that O-lugs

My dilemma is that I would love to find a vintage kit in great shape, but would also want to gig with it,,,,,a catch 22....as it is when I use my vintage Powertone snare or Supra (not yet gigged) I am always afraid I might scratch, dent or drop it......we all know how much room there is to work with in smaller venues. I find myself climbing over and/or crawling around, most times in the dark, to set up and break down....a clean vintage kit on stage would have me so tight I wouldn't be able to hold the sticks properly.

oh the misery.........cruel world.........

Posted on 17 years ago
#2
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Quoted post

ahmen to that O-lugsMy dilemma is that I would love to find a vintage kit in great shape, but would also want to gig with it,,,,,a catch 22....as it is when I use my vintage Powertone snare or Supra (not yet gigged) I am always afraid I might scratch, dent or drop it......we all know how much room there is to work with in smaller venues. I find myself climbing over and/or crawling around, most times in the dark, to set up and break down....a clean vintage kit on stage would have me so tight I wouldn't be able to hold the sticks properly.oh the misery.........cruel world.........

I do all my gigs (maybe 2 or 3 a month) with vintage kits. I use cases. Never had any damage. Often thought about getting a modern kit to gig on, but figured, what's the fun of having a cool vintage playable set, and showing up to the gig with a Tama or something. I have a lot of snares that don't make it out, but enjoy playing the kits.

Posted on 17 years ago
#3
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I reserve the option to do both. Some gigs are strictly "utilitarian" gigs and it's just a matter of being able to set up and tear down quickly. For those situations (and others), I use a kind of home made version of a HipGig kit -except with Rogers Big R toms and an Acrolite. I can load it in in one trip and on one cart and it makes a very small footprint when it's set up.

I love playing the vintage gear, too, but there are occasions when I know the advantages of bringing it will be outweighed by the disadvantages.

"God is dead." -Nietzsche

"Nietzsche is dead." -God
Posted on 17 years ago
#4
Posts: 388 Threads: 49
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Quoted post

I do all my gigs (maybe 2 or 3 a month) with vintage kits. I use cases. Never had any damage. Often thought about getting a modern kit to gig on, but figured, what's the fun of having a cool vintage playable set, and showing up to the gig with a Tama or something. I have a lot of snares that don't make it out, but enjoy playing the kits.

We have been playing gigs in small clubs in the Village in Manhattan on stages as big as postage stamps. You need to get on and off very quickly as there are normally 3 or 4 bands per night. No place for a fine vinatge kit. Many times I use the house kit and just bring my snare, cymbals and kick pedal........I'm in my 50's and this is my first real gigging band, and loving it............

John

Posted on 17 years ago
#5
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Quoted post

We have been playing gigs in small clubs in the Village in Manhattan on stages as big as postage stamps. You need to get on and off very quickly as there are normally 3 or 4 bands per night. No place for a fine vinatge kit. Many times I use the house kit and just bring my snare, cymbals and kick pedal........I'm in my 50's and this is my first real gigging band, and loving it............John

I play (ed) those same places and of course I use the house kit. People outside NYC have no idea what a joke these house sets are. Playing a crappy drum set in NYC has become a badge of honor.

I like to tell the story of the time I played a club in NYC (I think it was Acme Underground). The floor tom head was ripped so I taped it up before the set. Played the same club a year later and my tape job was still there!

I started doing that same scene about 8 years ago (at 40) and enjoyed the heck out of it. A lot of the clubs are closing, though, and playing for 4 friends, a drunk and a bartender gets boring after a while...

Posted on 17 years ago
#6
Posts: 5173 Threads: 188
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Even when I play my most coveted vintage gear, I care more about how I set them up -things like not over-tightening the wingnuts on everything (the way it's obvious that many people did back in the old days), for example. -things like not setting the snare rim in a position where it will rub against the tom tom, not clamping the pedal so tightly to the bass drum hoop...packing the stands carefully so the chrome doesn't get scratched up....and so on.

"God is dead." -Nietzsche

"Nietzsche is dead." -God
Posted on 17 years ago
#7
Posts: 5173 Threads: 188
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I think one of the reasons is due to the fact that we are no longer allowed to consume American-made drums/products anymore. I've asked this question many times and at many different places. "Why is it that we can't just have someone make a batch of drums the way that Ludwig used to make them...or the way Rogers used to make them?" The answers I gathered all basically boiled down to the fact that modern manufacturing methods and current ways of doing business, preclude any possibility that it would ever be profitable to go back to the old ways. If this consensus is true, then we don't have the option to get these drums anymor...and that means we (some of us) want the option more than ever! Thus, the drum-collecting market is born!

What we have seen are Asian companies responding to the call for "vintage-style" drums. Basically, again, it's just a marketing ploy to sell more modern drums -except under some concocted "vintage" moniker. I can say, with some experience, that even the very best custom drum builder with a "money is no object" budget is simply unable to create a kit that is truly like a real vintage kit.

Some of us vintage drummers didn't foresee our beloved drum companies going to waste when we were in the heyday of it all back then. But now that they are gone, the collectors come in to sweep up and preserve what is left...because we have the connection not only to the instruments, themselves, but to the time in which they were created and the amount of "mojo" they have absorbed throughout the years. I can't describe what it is about an old sparkle (for example) drum kit that is so much more alluring to me...but it's there all the same. I look at a new kit and I don't see it at all...but a vintage kit? -wow! -gets me every time! :)Burger Kin

"God is dead." -Nietzsche

"Nietzsche is dead." -God
Posted on 17 years ago
#8
Posts: 388 Threads: 49
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Quoted post

I think one of the reasons is due to the fact that we are no longer allowed to consume American-made drums/products anymore. I've asked this question many times and at many different places. "Why is it that we can't just have someone make a batch of drums the way that Ludwig used to make them...or the way Rogers used to make them?" The answers I gathered all basically boiled down to the fact that modern manufacturing methods and current ways of doing business, preclude any possibility that it would ever be profitable to go back to the old ways. If this consensus is true, then we don't have the option to get these drums anymor...and that means we (some of us) want the option more than ever! Thus, the drum-collecting market is born! What we have seen are Asian companies responding to the call for "vintage-style" drums. Basically, again, it's just a marketing ploy to sell more modern drums -except under some concocted "vintage" moniker. I can say, with some experience, that even the very best custom drum builder with a "money is no object" budget is simply unable to create a kit that is truly like a real vintage kit. Some of us vintage drummers didn't foresee our beloved drum companies going to waste when we were in the heyday of it all back then. But now that they are gone, the collectors come in to sweep up and preserve what is left...because we have the connection not only to the instruments, themselves, but to the time in which they were created and the amount of "mojo" they have absorbed throughout the years. I can't describe what it is about an old sparkle (for example) drum kit that is so much more alluring to me...but it's there all the same. I look at a new kit and I don't see it at all...but a vintage kit? -wow! -gets me every time! :)Burger Kin

O- you are going to make me cry.......cut it out........

Posted on 17 years ago
#9
Posts: 388 Threads: 49
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Quoted post

I play (ed) those same places and of course I use the house kit. People outside NYC have no idea what a joke these house sets are. Playing a crappy drum set in NYC has become a badge of honor.I like to tell the story of the time I played a club in NYC (I think it was Acme Underground). The floor tom head was ripped so I taped it up before the set. Played the same club a year later and my tape job was still there!I started doing that same scene about 8 years ago (at 40) and enjoyed the heck out of it. A lot of the clubs are closing, though, and playing for 4 friends, a drunk and a bartender gets boring after a while...

Rich - we have played MoPitkins both upstairs and down, and the Sidewalk. both on Ave A. Our last gig was at Kennys Castaways on Bleeker.....talk about karma....that stage has seen the likes of Springsteen. Queen, Kiss, Willie Nelson, Muddy Waters, Debra Harry and a host of others. I felt I was on hallowed ground........and the beers were only 6 bucks...not bad for Manhattan.........and the house kits were/are indeed a mess, not to mention the sound systems.......but I am having the time of my life...it's all new right now and we have a following of about 50-60 so the clubs love us as well.

John

Posted on 17 years ago
#10
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