Let's see the insides of the shells. That will tell the truth about the age of these. If they are thicker, 6 and 9 ply, the toms will be 6 ply and the bass will be 9, that would be a bit high. If they are all 3 ply, you might be reasonably close. The only way for us to tell what they are is take the heads off a tom and the bass. We really need to see this, it is important if you really want to sell them.

Dating these older MIJ drums is a tough game. It is all in the shells, and the snare looks to be a 70s shell to me, and I know a thing or three about these. If they are 70s, the others will be 6 and 9.

If the others are 3 ply, these are not the same as the Japanese drums, they are a different set. Gracy did not import into the US until very late. They came in the 60s, and died in the early 70s, when Star went to the dinosaur fields. My understaning is they bought their shells from Star, and Hoshino mgt would not allow it. So, Pearl was too deep in production to add yet another to increase production more, so Gracy was left without a supplier of shells. They went out rather than invest in equipmment to make their own.

John, where did you get that info about Gracy drums getting shells from Star??? I thought the Gracy stuff was supposed to be earlier, maybe not made for export?

I think there is a possibility that Gracy is actually one of the earlier Pearl made lines. A couple things tip me off:

1. The Gretsch copy lugs (found on earlier Norma drums that we know are Pearl made)

2. The double spring muffler in the snare drum (also an earlier Pearl feature)

3. Tom mounting hardware looks like the earlier stuff (Tempest, etc.) Flat tab mount that is different than Star's version, diamond shape bracket on tom (too early to be Hoshino, but not the Star shape)

4. Flat head screws in the snare drum (typically used by Pearl, Star usually used Phillips head screws)

5. Clubdate style floor tom leg mounts, and cymbal mount (?)

Agree? Disagree?

Did I say Star......LoLoLoLo :p

They are a company unto themselves, as they did register as a corporation. So, yeah, whoever made the drums for them, allowed them to place there own name on them. Not like Apollo, the stencil types we know. They actually incorporated under the name of Gracy Drum Maunfacturing. They even had an endorser here in the early days. The Star reference came from something I was reading elsewhere...my mind is weak, I may have convoluted facts. As for those Gretsch style parts, they are so few, I can't keep in my mind which is what. And I know you have a chart setup in excel with each part...

How is the bass coming? You still working up to it?

Here are a couple pics of my Norma snare (another project in waiting.) I think the lugs are the same as on the Gracy snare, but cant be positive without a close-up pic. The mufflers look to be the same. So, either Gracy got their hardware from the same place as Pearl, or they were a ghostbuilt by Pearl.

Hmmmm

As for the bass drum, yes, it is the next thing I'm trying to get to, but a number of disasters has kept me from getting to the hardware store for the epoxy. Also, my girlfriend keeps me very busy, in fact, I should be on my way to a BBQ right now.

First, here are three pics of the 13" tom. My next posting will have 3 pics of the bass drum.

I don't know if the inside wood support rim counts as a ply, but without that, I am guessing this is a 3 ply. Maybe? I know very little about this.

Here are the pics of the bass drum. I was just looking at my other (cheaper) drum kit, and it does not have the wood support rim inside the shells like the Gracys do. I guess these Gracys are much better?

Well, here is the deal. These are older, 67 or earlier. As to whether they are "better" than your newer drums, I would not say that just because of the reinforcement rings. You see, these old 3 ply shells are very thin and weak, so the rings are there as support to keep them from collapsing. Now, as far as this set, they are in excellent original condition. I doubt seriously you will see 500, but, if you have the original hi-hat stand and snare stand, you may be able to get 200-300 for them, if you are patient. These thinner shells are very resonant compared to most thicker shelled drums. They sound good, for cheap drums, but very few people really like them. I am one of those people.

The reason I tell you all this is because these old "MIJ" drums are considered very inferior to most people. They bring a certain amount af pleasure to some of us as we cannot afford to dabble in American vintage equipment. If these were a set of Gretsch drums, the ones they are trying to emulate, they would be worth about 4000. If they were Ludwig, probably 1200-1500, and Slingerland, 1000-1200 But, Made In Japan are more a curio than really collectible. They are very nice, but not worth a ton. Good luck with them.

BTW, really, you will more than likelyhave to help in the process of shipping if you really are trying to sell them, because most people who know about these are here on this forum.

As for locally selling them, such as on C/L, most people that are looking for beginner or student types of drums are rather ignorant. I mean this as in need of education, they don't understand drums, and will buy some new POS Chinese set because they wrongly assume that they can always get their money back if Junior decides drums are not his bag. They buy those wonders for between 300-600, and they are stuck with them because they really think people are trying to lowball them once they put them on C/L because the kid won't ever play them again. And they are really worth only about 50-150, after the kid plays them maybe 2 hours. Sad but true. These were the same back in the day. No serious drummers would even look twice at them, same as today, except there are those of us that really enjoy them. They are great as a gigging kit for working drummers because they are cheap, and it takes the pressure off their expensive, irreplaceble American vintage drums. I might know someone in your neck of the woods.

I would love to have these...

Then I guess it's time to lower the price! Any chance you can get your guy in "my neck of the woods" to pick them up and ship them to you? I will let them go for $300.