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Thinking of buying a Ludwig Supraphonic

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Hey Guys,

Been thinking of looking for a Ludwig Supraphonic and have a couple of questions.

Is a Ludalloy Supraphonic a Supraphonic no matter from what era? Basically asking if the only real differences throughout the years are the badges and throw offs and basically they will sound the same? Wondering cause the Supraphonics from the late 70's to the 80's seem to go for quite a bit less and I really do not care what the badge and throw off look like so long as the sound is there. In fact, is seems like the ones in those years may have less pitting issues but that could just be a small sample of examples I am looking at or maybe they are just not quite old enough to have as much of the pitting issues yet.

Thank you for your thoughts!

Wes

Posted on 8 years ago
#1
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My understanding is that the Ludalloy models were Ludwig's attempt to chrome plate aluminum shells, which did not work out to well, and many of them have the pitting you mentioned. Some earlier models (maybe later models too, but I'm not an expert on this subject) were chrome over brass, and seem to be more valuable to the "collector", but I think they all sound great, even the heavily pitted ones! A quick search of "Ludalloy" or "Supraphonic" here will get you a ton of info from the experts on this forum. Good luck! :)

65-73 Ludwig orphans 22/16/15/13/12 (silver sparkle rewrap)
1967 Ludwig Supraphonic 5 x 14
1976 Ludwig Acrolite 5 x 14
1966 Ludwig Pioneer 5 x 14
66-'67-ish Slingerland orphan project 20/13 (original champagne sparkling pearl)
Mid-60's Slingerland Gene Krupa COB Sound King 5 x 14
Mid-50's Slingerland tenor-to-floor tom resto/conversion project
Early 50's Slingerland Marcher resto project
Pork Pie 6.5 x 14 Big Black
Zildjians
Posted on 8 years ago
#2
Posts: 2010 Threads: 19
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The Supra model has remained pretty true to its roots since its introduction in around 1963. The "Ludalloy" (aluminum) shell has been a constant as has been the overall design of that shell (called the "acoustiperfect" shell featuring seamless spun forming and a shallow and very gradual snare bed). Certain details have evolved through the decades, the badges and throw offs, dropping the internal muffler in the early 80's. The very earliest examples had different snare beds (crimped in) and brass hoops but once things were finalized the overall design and construction has remained fairly constant since the mid 1960's.

Aluminum and chrome plating are somewhat at odds with one another on a chemical level and it is not an ideal combination. Some drums will flake severely while others will remain nearly perfect. There doesn't seem to be a particular pattern to this and theories abound as to why. Obviously the environment that the drum was kept in plays a part but perhaps there were other factors in play as well. Maybe different plating methods were tried or different plating companies were contracted to do the work with some using superior methods, maybe it had to do with the humidity on the day the drum was plated. No one seems to know for sure but newer drums do seem to hold up better, but whether that is due to a something they do differently now or just because those drums are "younger" I don't know. Bottom line though is even the ugliest flakiest Supras sound every bit as good as the ones with the chrome intact so they can sometimes be a real bargain if you are only concerned with the sonic properties of this snare and not so much about appearances.

Supras are very common so there isn't much reason to pay a premium price for a regular model. The 6.5" depth model will generally cost you more, they are less common and have the Bonham connection that boosts the price although they certainly are not a "rare" drum.

The older COB drums that go for big money aren't technically Supraphonics. They are the Super Ludwig model snare which the Supra replaced. Outwardly they are very similar (nearly identical) in appearance but there are a number of differences, most notably the brass shell (which chrome adores and doesn't flake off). They are great snare drums in their own right and probably worth the going rate but they aren't really Supras. There were some brass shelled Supras made at some point in the late 60's and/or early 70's. Those are quite rare though and don't pop up very often. Possibly special drums made for endorsers.

Beginning in the late 70's Ludwig began producing variations on the Supra theme, the first being the brass Black Beauty model. I'm not sure if technically these are considered to be Supra Models but they share an identical design with only the shell material and plating being different. Since then Ludwig has made Supra like models in Brass, Bronze, titanium, and Copper so there are options in the newer drums.

The newest models have rubber gaskets under the lugs but otherwise still look remarkably similar to their 50 year old ancestors.

Two other Ludwig models use the same shell as the Supra, The Acrolite model has the same shell but unplated and with just eight lugs (on the 5" model). This is a snare drum that everyone should own at least one of, particularly since they tend to sell for very little (although prices seem to be climbing as their reputation spreads). The other is the Super Sensitive which is a Supra shell with a much more intricate throw off mechanism. Sometimes these will sell for less than a Supra of similar vintage because fewer people are looking for them, even though it was originally a higher end and more expensive model.

As easy as Supras are to find and as good as they can sound there's no reason not to snag one and give it a try. There is a reason they've remained such a success through over 5 decades.

Anyway, I hope that helps.

Posted on 8 years ago
#3
Posts: 176 Threads: 7
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Great info on the Supraphonic, K.O. I have a 1968 with lots of flaking chrome (before I joined this site I had incorrectly assumed it was COB), and recently I've been using it more than any of the other snares I own. It sounds great, is quite versatile and easily tuned.

Vintage kits:
1969 Rogers Holiday - black diamond pearl (20/16/13/12)
196x Star (Lyra/Majestic) - blue sparkle pearl (22/14/13) Restoration Project
1987 Pearl KC-3500 - jet black (22/16/13/12)
Not-so-vintage kits:
2007 Hart Dynamics Professional 6.4 e-kit / Roland TDW-20
Snares:
60s Gretsch 5x14 maple WMP / 68 Ludwig 5x14 Supraphonic / 93 Pearl 3x14 Free Floating brass piccolo / 60s Star (Lyra) 5x14 luan blue sparkle pearl / 87 Pearl 6.5x14 steel
Posted on 8 years ago
#4
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That was great information you shared, K.O.! Although I play with a big set of Stars, I "cheat" a bit. The seventh drum I use is a late 70's Supraphonic. The reason is simple. I have played a lot of snares over the years but, none sounded half as good! I know this is a subjective statement but, I feel there are a lot of members here who would agree. For me, the Supra can't be beat!

Brian

Just a drummer who loves all things about vintage drums! Nothing more, nothing less.
Posted on 8 years ago
#5
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Chrome does stick to Aluminum, but just not well....

What Ludwig did, was "finish chrome" the aluminum shells. Basically that's a really thin chrome plating. The issue with this is that it is porous... meaning moisture can pass through the chrome plating. When moisture or water gets in contact with aluminum, it oxidizes, creating a gas, which then gets trapped under the chrome plating. This is what the bubbling is from.

So, I've seen 40 year old supras that have been kept in a case in a house in Arizona, and they look brand new. I've seen others that lived in a school in Florida (they turn off the AC in the summer) that have no chrome left...

But its not just humidity from the air. Sweat, beer, spray from those beach or pool front gigs... etc...

If you keep your drum indoors and pretty clean, it shouldn't pit or flake at all....

Posted on 8 years ago
#6
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Wow K.O. Great information and exactly was I was looking for!

Thank you!

Posted on 8 years ago
#7
Posts: 5550 Threads: 576
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Don't forget that the change in hoops through the years also has changed the sound

April 2nd 1969 scarfed pink champagne holly wood and 65/66 downbeat snare, and , supra same year very minty kit old pies
66/67 downbeat with canister
Super 400 small round knob
1967 super classic obp





once the brass ceases to glitter, and the drum looses its luster, and the stage remains dark, all you have left is the timbre of family.
Posted on 8 years ago
#8
Posts: 2010 Threads: 19
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From jaghog

Don't forget that the change in hoops through the years also has changed the sound

Very true. They've been steel since about 1965 but I'm sure they got thicker at some point as the industry seemed to embrace a "thicker hoops are better" philosophy (which I'm not sure is accurate, but "bigger/heavier is better" has been a trend in the drum industry for quite a while now). They were probably 1.6mm up through most of the 1980's but after that I'm not sure. The current hoops they use (imported perhaps?) seem to be the cause of the tension rod splay that the newer drums often display. I've heard that if you replace those hoops with an earlier set that the splay goes away.

That could be one reason for seeking out a 70's era Supra as opposed to a newer one if you want to be sure to get the thinner hoops (assuming they are original) but you could always swap them out on a newer drum if you wanted to.

Posted on 8 years ago
#9
Posts: 771 Threads: 132
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I think that everyone should have at least a couple of supras along with 2 Gretsch, 2 Slingerlands and 2 Rogers and oh yeah 2 Leedy"s and a Camco. Never stop....D' Drummer

Keep fixing them up...
Posted on 8 years ago
#10
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