Only Admins can see this message.
Data Transition still in progress. Some functionality may be limited until the process is complete.
Processing Attachment, Gallery - 186.78079%

Stumbled across another project (Ludwig) Last viewed: 1 hour ago

Loading...

(I'll add some pics in a few hours)

Ok, so I noticed a snare shell yesterday, sitting in the hall at our practice place. It caught my eye because it had a P-85 Black center (so my first thought was "70's!"). After we played, I asked the man upstairs whether he was throwing it away, and he said I could have it.

So, here's what it is, structurally...

It's a 16 lugger, "only" missing heads, hoops, snares and rods.

Lugs, strainer, butt end, muffler, eylet, badge and even a sticker inside are all there.

The bearing edges are dead. Or in a really bad shape if you will.

The lacquer (I think it is lacquer. Not sure what the Mahogany finish looks like) is pretty banged up too. And the badge is missing a part, which broke off.

And this is what it is...

So, the inside sticker is really nice. It says Date 5971 7. Not sure what the last 7 is for.

And it says Model No 912.

So, after checking the catalogs in the guide, I would say it's a 1971, 14x6.5 School Festival. Or part of it, at least :P. The badge also seems to be from the early 70's, it's a 906xxx (don't know the last numbers by heart, and I'm too lazy to get up now).

BTW, it's a B/O badge with sn, obviously, and it has the "sharp" corners, which explains why one corner is missing, and the other has obviously been bent some times already.

But, besides the edges being in terrible condition and the finish being hit pretty hard, I didn't see any other major problem. The strainer seems to work just fine.

I never used a P-85 before (I think), but it does "move" a bit, if you know what I mean. I am used to this on cheapo modern snares, but is this normal, or does it need some repairing? (Of course, there are no snares on it now, so no tension on the strainer)

Also, if I want to use it (which I do), one thing that has to be done is the edges. Would you say it's worth it (cause I may need to ask someone else to do that)? Will it sound decent again? I don't know what range/level this snare was supposed to be and whether it sounded good or not.

BTW, what is the difference between this "concert" drum (catalog says it is) and a "normal" snare? I don't see any big differences.

Thanks for your time and knowledge ^^

PS. Do these snare actually have snarebeds? I find it hard to make them out...

Posted on 14 years ago
#1
Loading...

Here is a pic of my preserial numbered school festival, does it look like this? Until you post the pics hard to answer the rest of your questions,a good way to ruin a ludwig is by having the wrong angle bearing edge cut, so take good clear pictures of that, a p-85 is a simple snare strainer but they work perfectly so probably nothing wrong with it,

Your drummers not much good is he!? What you need is someone that's as good as me. ! John Henry Bonham !!
Posted on 14 years ago
#2
Loading...

I have a school festival as well, and it is a great sounding drum.

Posted on 14 years ago
#3
Loading...

Here goes. My School Festival shell.

The edges aren't dead, as in completely gone. The 45 angle is still there. I find it incredibly hard to just get a sharp picture of an edge.

That one lug is not missing, I took it off already. As well as some other stuff.

So... What I'd still like to know... Ehm...

Yes, what would that last 7 on the date stand for? I guess 5971 might mean 9 May, 1971, right? Or is the 59 something else?

The strainer is just fine. I realized it moves less than I thought to remember, and now that I know the construction, I understand it is only normal for that "sleigh" (lol) to have a little room to be able to slide up and down quickly.

There's a little logo in the strainer (something with a K, D and C?), as well as a number, "1017". Does that stand for anything? Just curious. I can try to make a pic of it.

Posted on 14 years ago
#4
Loading...

I have a few P-85 throws and a few of them back off a little while playing ,they seem to back off a certain amount and quit in my experience,they back off a little quicker with a heavy snare set like the fat cats.I don't know if the can be modified/repaired,I guess I have just gotten used to it over the years.

Posted on 14 years ago
#5
Posts: 5176 Threads: 188
Loading...

From MrTurd

Here goes. My School Festival shell.The edges aren't dead, as in completely gone. The 45 angle is still there. I find it incredibly hard to just get a sharp picture of an edge.That one lug is not missing, I took it off already. As well as some other stuff.So... What I'd still like to know... Ehm...Yes, what would that last 7 on the date stand for? I guess 5971 might mean 9 May, 1971, right? Or is the 59 something else?The strainer is just fine. I realized it moves less than I thought to remember, and now that I know the construction, I understand it is only normal for that "sleigh" (lol) to have a little room to be able to slide up and down quickly.There's a little logo in the strainer (something with a K, D and C?), as well as a number, "1017". Does that stand for anything? Just curious. I can try to make a pic of it.

-Your bearing edges would NEVER EVER have had a sharp 45 degree bevel. The original edge should be a rounded 30 degree bevel. It might appear to be "worn" in comparison to a new drum which often do have sharp 45 degree edges, but that rounded edge is a big reason why the drums sounds and responds the way it does. If you restore it and you plan on re-cutting the edges, then you have any option for any edge you want to use, but if you want the drum to sound like a vintage drum, then you have to retain the original edge profile.

-The numbers on the badge do not literally reflect the date. It is the range of numbers that corresponds to a general date range. *EDIT* Okay, I see you were referring to the paper tag with the date. I'm not exactly sure how to translate that to be honest. But, it's very likely a 1971 drum from the style of badge. That would be the only realistic year. As far as the other numbers....not exactly sure. Hmmmm....

-Need a pic to see what you're referring to with the letters and number.

"God is dead." -Nietzsche

"Nietzsche is dead." -God
Posted on 14 years ago
#6
Posts: 5176 Threads: 188
Loading...

The badge number indicates 1972. The tag indicates 1971, but the range is close enough to fit in with the general age -early 70's.

"God is dead." -Nietzsche

"Nietzsche is dead." -God
Posted on 14 years ago
#7
Loading...

From O-Lugs

-Your bearing edges would NEVER EVER have had a sharp 45 degree bevel. The original edge should be a rounded 30 degree bevel.

I see. I do plan on getting the edges done anyway, so in that case I would get the original profile again (round 30).

With the damage, I meant the top of the edge has worn badly in some spots, and there are some shallow dents in it. I can't believe the edge has worn from 30 to 47 degrees. Someone must have "modernized" it, I guess. Now I'm curious whether it's still 6.5" high. Measured it now, it is exactly 6.5".

I paid nothing for this, and if in the end there's no option but to throw it away, I'll still have the strainer, muffler and lugs. But if I can get it back to being played (by me :P), I'd be much happier, of course.

Either way, there's not much to lose at this point. Perhaps some money if I'm not careful, but I normally am (enough, at least).

Don't think the numbers mean much. I am just always so curious about everything I see :P

1 attachment
Posted on 14 years ago
#8
Posts: 5176 Threads: 188
Loading...

All I can think of is that it's a parts reference number and the logo of the place that made it for Ludwig.

And, upon second thought, I do remember once having a 70's Pioneer that had really REEEALLY terrible bearing edges that ranged from rounded in some spots to sharp double bevels in other spots. Eye Ball I thought it might have been re-cut, too...but it measured exactly 5 inches deep which was what it was supposed to be. So, maybe there was a new employee at Ludwig learning how to use the router, who hadn't quite mastered it yet! :D But, it is my beliefe that those 3-ply shells will give you their best if they are cut with the proper Ludwig roundover edges. If you need to cut them, then take the minimal amount away and mostly reshape them. If the dings are in the sharp part of the edge, then you might be able to round those off without decreasing the depth of the shell.

"God is dead." -Nietzsche

"Nietzsche is dead." -God
Posted on 14 years ago
#9
Loading...

I would clean the shell up, gather the parts needed and put it together to see how it sounds before I would mess with the bearing edges.

I say this because I just added a 1960 Pioneer 5x14 snare to my collection. All nickel plated hardware with brass hoops and WFL strainer and butt plate.

The bearing edges on this drum are not what I expect them to be but the drum sounds fantastic for what was a student level drum.

Posted on 14 years ago
#10
  • Share
  • Report
Action Another action Something else here