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stewart drums

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There are those that completely turn their noses down at MIJ kits without giving them the time of day. Oh well. Ask Jonnistix, as he has had his fair share of abuse when standing up for these drums.

That being said, they are cheap drums that are cheaply made. That is a fact. At the time when they were new they were viewed as laughable by those that were in the store to buy a Ludwig, Rogers, Gretsch..... kit. Meanwhile they were also the stuff of dreams for kids who just were dying to play the drums. So if they have survived (and that is a very good point by the way) and are now useable musical instruments then there is nothing wrong with that!

tnsquint
Very proud owner of a new Blaemire Snare 6.5 x 14 made by Jerry Jenkins "Drumjinx"
Posted on 11 years ago
#21
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From tnsquint

That being said, they are cheap drums that are cheaply made. That is a fact.

No argument here on that point, but my point would be...so what? Just because they were cheaply made doesn't mean they don't sound good. IMHO they sounded good 40 years ago, and now after decades of their wood curing, they often sound VERY good.

Show me an MIJ owner who's drums don't sound good, and more often than not, I'll show you someone who does not know how to tune them. It's nothing to be ashamed of really, these drums are admittedly finicky and hard to tune and keep tuned. That is one of the advantages the better made US and Euro brands bring to the table. But I for one find it tiresome to keep hearing people blame their own incompetence on the equipment.

Just as a fine guitar can sound awful in the hands of a novice so can a cheap drum sound spectacular in the hands of a master.

Georgia Phil Custom Drumworks
https://www.GeorgiaPhil.com

Drum Wrap, Drum Heads, Drum Accessories
https://www.StuffForDrummers.com
Posted on 11 years ago
#22
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From MutantMozart

No argument here on that point, but my point would be...so what? Just because they were cheaply made doesn't mean they don't sound good. IMHO they sounded good 40 years ago, and now after decades of their wood curing, they often sound VERY good.Show me an MIJ owner who's drums don't sound good, and more often than not, I'll show you someone who does not know how to tune them. It's nothing to be ashamed of really, these drums are admittedly finicky and hard to tune and keep tuned. That is one of the advantages the better made US and Euro brands bring to the table. But I for one find it tiresome to keep hearing people blame their own incompetence on the equipment.Just as a fine guitar can sound awful in the hands of a novice so can a cheap drum sound spectacular in the hands of a master.

I believe we are in agreement. No argument there.

tnsquint
Very proud owner of a new Blaemire Snare 6.5 x 14 made by Jerry Jenkins "Drumjinx"
Posted on 11 years ago
#23
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Wow. Thanks for all the replys all. Seems I sparked a small debate. I've decided to try my hand at wrapping these drums as they seem like the perfect candidate. I'm only into them for $50.00 so if I put another 100 or two in and gain some experience AND end up with a decent sounding kit...I'm good with it. I'm gonna try to upload some pics tonite. I also have a "drop in" section in at least the rack tom. They also seem to have been painted inside. I'm thinking white marine pearl for the wrap. Will keep u all posted.

Posted on 11 years ago
#24
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From DownTownFarmer

I think the whole vintage 4 piece drum set thing has made a comeback, certainly with younger bands, especially indie/pop/alternative ones. Mostly Big Four kits, but I've seen some of them using the stencils. You could say the stencils are along for the ride. There's a pleasing irony to using them professionally.The sprung-insert version of the stencil tension casings should work as well as the better brands. The concept/design is the same. It hasn't been my experience that the MIJ tension rods rotate counter-clockwise in the inserts from playing the drum. I add nylon washers all around.For a long time it was all Ludwig and Gretsch for me. Been loving the MIJ for a while now - they sound great and I can sort of go crazy, as the picture reveals...Mitch

Mitch,

That is a cool assortment of drums you have there.

tnsquint
Very proud owner of a new Blaemire Snare 6.5 x 14 made by Jerry Jenkins "Drumjinx"
Posted on 11 years ago
#25
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Clearly, I am one of the major detractors of these drums, on this forum and I have considerable experience with them-----from experiencing them fresh out of the box, to rebuilding them and playing rebuilt versions, over the years. I currently have a 4 piece , sitting here 20 12 14 and 14 awaiting repair, waiting for some tweaks and parts and aside from it's cool size quotient,and cheap price it's a pretty yawny kit.

Very little is purchased in our world , without the consideration of " is it good value for the money" being factored in. Were MIJ drums good value for the money for the American( and Canadian and Swedish....)primary consumers in 1968? The answer is an unqualified yes. Were they good value for the money for the rainforests of the Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia? Were they good value for the money for employees of Slingerland, or Boosey & Hawkes and Rogers and John Grey and Trixon and ......were they good value for the money for the ultimate users, who out of frustration, struggling with an inferior instrument, quit and left them in the closet?

I get that they can be made to sound like better drums than they did fresh out of the box and I get that the Luan wood , like all wood, seasons and might contribute to a better sound now than when they were made.( those Japanese musical instrument artisans , are so clever----that was definitely their plan). I get that they are now so cheap and available that anyone can pick them up for a song and fuse their woodworking hobby and musicianship. I get that due to their cheapness, many can be acquired for the price of one Gretsch drum and a collection can be attained.

I get most of the points related to purchasing and promoting these drums.

I also get that , the politics and ethics related to their production and the policies related to their general acceptance in the marketplace are a small part of a very serious picture, that is still ongoing and isn't exactly fun and collectible for a lot of people , to whom 20.00 spent on a MIJ drum would be a lot. So, the value of these drums at their current low price is an illusion....and I get that no one has any control over that right now and that the enjoyment of these drums under the current circumstances is a long way from the politics and policies.....but it is something that is there and I find troubling.

I don't get , that almost no one talks about these drums in their entirety.That's the way I see drums, with all the bits they were supplied with. For the most part,the hardware and cymbals mostly get ignored as they should. Quite honestly , I'm surprised that there isn't a Made in Japan cymbal rehammering cult ,out there somewhere. There is a lot of talk about shell packs and toms and bass drums but even the supplied video in this thread shows a Ludwig snare partnered with 3 MIJ drums, as a demonstration. Why not just sneak in a Slingy bass drum too. We can all rock out to those surprising MIJ toms, hey you know, they don't sound too bad!

I get that certain people have an affection for them because they were their first drums. I was around them, when I started but was fortunate enough to start on a used Trixon set, which by the way , cost me 1/2 of what a new MIJ kit would have cost---and I got Zildjian cymbals and an Olympic hi-hat to boot. Which brings me to the biggest thing that I don't get.

If the real interest, out there is in landing good playable drums, at a cheap price----because that's what I read a lot ; something along the lines of, I can afford to buy these, then; why would someone not pursue looking for drums other than MIJ, which go for about the same price? If you look hard enough, Ajax, Olympic, Roxy( Tromsa),Broadway, Beverley,to name a few are all out there( I just bought a 50's , Tromsa 16 lug parallel drop snare---will be about 70.00, delivered to my door). Most of those brands are actually, up to first rate standards and are still around in some quantity,even in North America . You see, pursuing MIJ drums doesn't make sense to me because if you are into drums , then good drums would be of interest, irregardless of maker.....and as for the snobbery. I know a well made drum , when I see and hear one; a drum that is designed, engineered and built with skill and purpose,the goal of which was to make a qualified musical instrument not; just assembled from door panelling and available molded white metal parts ,thrown in a box with a bunch of chromed scrap metal and spun brass torture devices , the goal of which; was simply, to collect foreign currency.

Posted on 11 years ago
#26
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From p2e1a1r2t

Wow. Thanks for all the replys all. Seems I sparked a small debate. I've decided to try my hand at wrapping these drums as they seem like the perfect candidate. I'm only into them for $50.00 so if I put another 100 or two in and gain some experience AND end up with a decent sounding kit...I'm good with it. I'm gonna try to upload some pics tonite. I also have a "drop in" section in at least the rack tom. They also seem to have been painted inside. I'm thinking white marine pearl for the wrap. Will keep u all posted.

Heh, I wouldn't sweat the debate, this one is age old.

Georgia Phil Custom Drumworks
https://www.GeorgiaPhil.com

Drum Wrap, Drum Heads, Drum Accessories
https://www.StuffForDrummers.com
Posted on 11 years ago
#27
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I listened to the Vintage Japanese Star vs. 50's Ludwig Video. The Ludwig toms had more sustain than the Star kit and the Ludwig bass drum had more punch, but both kits still sound good. Be aware that there were different heads on the kits.

Star

Toms: Aquarian Texture Coated (10-mil) batter/Attack Medium (1-ply) resonant

Bass: Attack No Overtone batter (1-ply w/thin ring)/Remo Ambassador resonant (1-ply w/port)

Ludwig

Toms: Evans G2 Coated (2-ply) batter/Evans G1 Coated (1-ply)

Bass: Evans EMAD batter (1-ply w/foam ring)/Evans EQ3 resonant (1-ply w/port)

Remember, your hearing just the drums. I also had headphones on and replayed each kit multiple times. Throw the Star kit into a mix with other instruments or listen during a live performance and they would still sound great.

Doesn't some of the sustain come from the "hardness" of the shell material? Isn't the Luan Mahogany a softer and less dense wood? I've read somewhere, that MIJ owners have applied multiple coats of tung oil or polyurethane to the insides of their shells as a hardener.

Wouldn't it be interesting if someone acquired a Star kit for free, re-cut the bearing edges, applied multiple coats of polyurethane to the insides of the shells, installed an extra set of Ludwig Classic lugs they had stored away, installed Ludwig badges and completely fooled everyone. ;) Talk about the ultimate gig/player's kit.

-Tim

Posted on 11 years ago
#28
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From thornbeck

I listened to the Vintage Japanese Star vs. 50's Ludwig Video. The Ludwig toms had more sustain than the Star kit and the Ludwig bass drum had more punch, but both kits still sound good. Be aware that there were different heads on the kits.StarToms: Aquarian Texture Coated (10-mil) batter/Attack Medium (1-ply) resonantBass: Attack No Overtone batter (1-ply w/thin ring)/Remo Ambassador resonant (1-ply w/port)LudwigToms: Evans G2 Coated (2-ply) batter/Evans G1 Coated (1-ply)Bass: Evans EMAD batter (1-ply w/foam ring)/Evans EQ3 resonant (1-ply w/port)Remember, your hearing just the drums. I also had headphones on and replayed each kit multiple times. Throw the Star kit into a mix with other instruments or listen during a live performance and they would still sound great.Doesn't some of the sustain come from the "hardness" of the shell material? Isn't the Luan Mahogany a softer and less dense wood? I've read somewhere, that MIJ owners have applied multiple coats of tung oil or polyurethane to the insides of their shells as a hardener.Wouldn't it be interesting if someone acquired a Star kit for free, re-cut the bearing edges, applied multiple coats of polyurethane to the insides of the shells, installed an extra set of Ludwig Classic lugs they had stored away, installed Ludwig badges and completely fooled everyone. ;) Talk about the ultimate gig/player's kit.-Tim

I really wish the maker of that video would have used identical heads. That would have legitimized the video even more. Meanwhile, at least it succeeded in demonstrating that the Star can hold it's own next to the Luddy. I have seen MIJ drums with Luddy lugs on them - I suppose because they could not find or afford a real Luddy shell wrapped to match, so they essentially made one using a different shell. At the same time, this particular drum I am thinking about (which sold on Ebay - champagne floor tom) - the seller added that it actually sounded better than a the Luddy shell it replaced. Of course - he would say that in the sales pitch, but then I believe it since I own some great sounding MIJ floor toms. Then we go back to edges and head selection and of course - tuning. Such a long winded debate - that I particularly enjoy as well! When I first joined this site and started learning this stuff - I just could not get enough of this discussion! It sucked hours of my time and I enjoyed every second!

I think it is clear, that while the differences should be recognized, the lover of both American made and the MIJs is the clear winner, as opposed to the one who despises the MIJ junk "Asian firewood" as they call it. I love the fact that MIJs make the world of Vintage drums accessible for all ages and socio-economical levels.

Recent story - I had a mystery FT, learned it was a Slingerland/Leedy. Nobody wanted to buy it, so I parted it out (painted wrap, missing badge, missing rim, etc.) It made me a boatload of money and allowed me to pay some bills (greatly underemployed right now). Now I have all the parts to still use the shell for another project, but now I get guys wanting the shell. I would willingly trade, so long as they throw in a couple of rims I need. I would be perfectly happy with either shell, as both are thin with the re-rings. Point is, ya gotta love that! Praise for both the value of the American drum, but also for the quality of the MIJ shell.

Now as for hardware - I have probably only once or twice had ANY issue with lugs or mounts on the old MIJs. The pedals do pretty much suck, though are cool to have to complete the kit (all MIJ) - which brings me to stands....the T-screws on these really are aweful, but other than that, I enjoy using the flat-based MIJ. They look great and are very light and compact. Lastly, the cymbals - mostly a miss here - as we are all aware of - but how about those rides?? I simply love these, and they are proving to be very popular with the jazz guys. Since my video, I acquired a thicker heavier 20 in. when most are thinner than other types of cymbals.

Be sure to see my video featuring 3 of these (and one of these is for sale): simply search "MIJ Ride Cymbal" or just click here.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nA3pvQnR61c[/ame]

Enjoying the discussion!

John

I had a great day! Instead of sleeping in and wasting the day, I got up at 8 and I had all my slacking done by noon!

2Timothy1:7
Posted on 11 years ago
#29
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Hey Calf -

I would agree that we here in the US still have a good selection and 'well' of MIJ kits to find in the CL ads and garage sales. At the same time, I would have to point out that even in the last 5 years - these are becoming more and more difficult to find.

Next, I have not tried to search for the other non-USA drums (mostly European) by name though I would have to say that in my search for ALL things "drum" on CL, it is extremely rare that I would stumble upon anything other than American, MIJ, modern MIT, ROC, etc. It takes an Ebay search to find anything like what you are referring to....they (again, mostly European) are extremely rare compared to MIJ, here in the states, as far as I can tell.

John

I had a great day! Instead of sleeping in and wasting the day, I got up at 8 and I had all my slacking done by noon!

2Timothy1:7
Posted on 11 years ago
#30
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