BRAVO.....BRAVO.....BRAVO......BowingBowingMind Blowiflowers2

Another factor that insured Tama's success was American protectionism. When import duties were raised, cheaper copies---guitars, drums, etc.---would become more expensive than their relative quality deserved.

Therefore, Japanese companies decided to compete head to head with Western manufacturers by raising quality. Names such as Yamaha, Pearl, Tama, and Ibanez began showing up on stage, TV and recordings pushing market share of US name brands down at a time when US prices were already high and quality was slipping.

John, yes, your theory makes sense to me, especially since the drums I have seen that I've suspected to be Hoshino made have lugs very similar to early Tama lugs.

I think this could very well help tell the story of these drums, so go ahead and have that cookie - ask the Webmaster, he can get you one!

That may very well be a big part of it. This particular post is more about the mystery of the timeline, and the lost, or anonymous "third" manufacturer. I think that is more what this "eureka" moment was about, but yeah, a lot of guys refuse to accept these facts.

I am of the opinion that labor unions caused/allowed many problems with quality in the 60s, and especially the 70s. I know there will be much arguement, but the truth hurts,and that is all there is to it. Before anyone slams me, I want you all to know, I was a member of not one, but two labor unions. One was UMWA, the other IATSI. The unions allowed many people to get and keep jobs, regardless of whether they were qualified to do the job or not, and whether the work was of acceptable quality or not. I was there, and saw many people abuse the companies that wrote their paychecks and the company has virtually no recourse. It takas too many written warnings and way too long to remove someone from a union protected position for poor quality performance, far longer than it takes to ruin a companies quality and reputation.

This is were many more guys and gals will gripe saying the quality was off because the companies were greedy and forced the workers to push substandard down the line toward the door, taking the position of let the warranty department worry about it, if it ain't a problem then we don't have to fix it. In other words, if the customer doesn't notice it in the first 30-60-90 days, whatever the initial warranty period is, then it ain't a problem and we are no longer liable for it, calling it a "cosmetic warranty"...back to reduced quality and the fact that the bottomline is now important than our reputation. (cosmetic warranties are a very popular thing, allowing companies to use lower quality finishes and finish products, and lower prices marginally, then when someone complains, after the first thiry days, or whatever, and tell them they need to take a look at the "cosmetic warranty provision" contained in the documents explaining how to obtain service)

Anyway, try to understand, the Japanese saw an opportunity to improve while American companies were struggling with a poor economy, and worker apathy abetted by unionization and lax quality control because the company could not enforce their own standards on the union workers because they could file a grievance against management and the union could tell the compnay man to buzz off, he gets what he gets, unless it was something that was actually governed by state or federal regulation. I know this to be the facts as I worked in a uniopn shop that was locked and if the company man told you to do anything and you didn't want to hear it, all you had to do was tell them you are calling the union boss in and they had no choice but to walk away. This is not to say all union workers are/were this way, but a high percentage of people saw as a way to get paid to do half-assed work, and anyone that has really worked in a true closed shop knows this is a true statement.

And for the record, I now live in a state that has no job protection whatsoever, calling it "at will employment", meaning the company can let you go for almost no reason at all, even if you think you have a contract.

Well done, Jonnistix.

Although I feel a little bit like an audience - as good old Europe appeared not to be the key market in the 60s/beginning 70s for Japanese drum manufacturers.

Let me add some information to this all:

First: we are talking about Hoshino Gakki (and not Hoshino Kougyou).

What I found out was the following time schedule:

1908: foundation of the 'Musical Instrument Sales Division of Hoshino Shoten (Hoshino Bookstores)'

1929: foundation of 'Hoshino Gakki Ten, Inc.' (from then on called: 'Hoshino Gakki Co. Ltd.')

approx. 1961: foundation of the company Star

1962: foundation of 'TAMA Seisakusho' (from then on called: 'Hoshino Gakki MFG.Co.Ltd.'), initially manufacturing guitars and amps

approx. 1965: beginning of the OWN (!) production of drums under the brand 'Star'

1966: introduction of the budget section 'Drum Mate'

1972: there are three Star-lines available: 'Swing Star', 'Royal Star' and 'Imperial Star'

1973: last catalogue for 'Drum Mate' drums

1974: beginning of the production under the brand 'TAMA' (starting with the lines: 'Imperialstar', 'Royalstar' and 'Swingstar')

I like to point out that this is my own interpretation, done by collecting materials from different sources together. There still may be mistakes in it.

Ralf

So there is still this third builder, Hoshino(2) that is not in this mix. Can you guys lay out the two and make sense of them, because I am on overload this month. I think what I have figured out here is the basic steps and timing, not really the full line up of players.

Let's face it, until June, I was oblivious to any real differences in any of these old wonderful "toys" that have now become an overpowering obsession for at least 5 people on this forum...

Now throw the Camco connection into the mix!!

NOOOOO!!!..DONT DO THIS!!!Eye Ball

Wayne: you don't like DW's?

- 'cause Camco will lead us automatically to them.

I'll find it very interesting to add this branch to the family tree.

Although I guess I'm not a big help at this point ...

Ralf