Gold Baby!! :)

I don't have any evidence or opinion about this one way or the other, but for the sake of discussion, I'll ask: Is the sound really the same?

Logic and physics would seem to suggest that this might not be true. Consider that with all other things being equal - type of wood, construction, hardware, etc. - a drum that has a layer of glue, and then a layer of wrap (which itself has a layer of backing, the decorative elements like spakle or pearl, and a layer of vinyl holding it all together, would be deader sounding than the exact same drum with only paint on it. The drum with only a thin layer or two of paint should be more resonant, shouldn't it?

So: Has anyone ever examined / discussed / researched this subject? Is there a thread somewhere on this board dealing with it?

Scott

Coincidentally, someone over at drumforum.org just posted a note offering a 15 X 15 Kent floor tom: http://www.drumforum.org/index.php?/topic/22239-kent-15-floor-tom-any-interest/

Maybe a candidate for a paint job?

Scott

This has been discussed into the ground ... and then some ... on forums, on websites, by dealers, by suppliers, by manufacturers, in barber shops, under tables, on planes, in parks, backstage, on the tour bus, in offices, and over coffee.

The consensus is this ... nobody has a freekin' clue who is right.

There have been audio tests run and both sides of the discussion have results that prove their point. Bottom line, most people can't tell the difference between a pure 5 ply maple shell and a mixed 7 ply shell. Our ears are not sensitive enough. We like to believe we can nail it, but truth be told, we just don't have the equipment or the skills to make the call with any precision. Now, we are asking if these same ears can detect such a minor change to the shell as wrap glued to it.................

I've got video of the same drums a-b (without and with wrap). One of the vids is the Ludwig WMP resto I did on my YouTube site. I still get people swearing those are "great 3 ply vintage drums". They are 6 ply and are wrapped over the original maple gloss finish. ...whatever.

Man! Rub it in, why don't you? That's what I'm talking about. That's a sweet set. They don't get much prettier than that.

Hey Fellow Head Beaters:

A few more thoughts on this topic. First, in reference to my large posting on 10/22. I assume Vintage Drum Forum monitors postings for derogatory or inappropriate language because they replaced three letters with asterisks in a word I used to describe "costly ornaments of precious metals or gems used as adornment", as my American Heritage Dictionary defines it. For the record, VDF did that. I wasn't making any politically incorrect jokes, and I'm certainly not racist, bigoted, or anti-semitic. I'm glad VDF keeps it clean, but this one was rather amusing. I assume if I use the word "assume" that they won't remove the asses from my assumes but if they do I'll have to use the word "but" unless they remove my butts. I'm so confused. Will they remove the fu from confused? Man, I'm really gonna have to look at every single word I use from now on and correctum. Ooops. There I go again.

Gone Drumming- Keep in touch, ok? I am very interested to see how you make out with getting a floor tom painted to match your set. Let me know when you're planning on doing it and send me some before and after pics. I'll do the same if I go that route.

Rich K, any more info on Donny at drumforum.org? I couldn't find him. I'd be interested to see his work and perhaps use his services. You also mentioned the small tom and bass drum on ebay with the wide gold stripes were stage band types. I'm not familiar with that description. What constitutes a stage band type? (If VDF adds asterisks to "constitutes", I'm just asking what the difference between stage band and regular drums are.)

You also mentioned the mahogany interior era. Can you give me a little more information about that? I've noticed that in some years snares and bass drums may have mahogany interiors while the toms don't. Am I correct? Were there years where all the drums had mahogany interiors? I guess this is pretty basic historical information, but I'm not familiar with it. I've seen deeper reenforcement rings in Radio Kings, which I don't prefer over the smaller beveled late-50's and 60's-type sound rings. Were there years where the drums were mahogany with the beveled sound rings?

Last but not least, dig this. Last night I was watching "The Howlin' Wolf Story". It contained a still picture of the band gigging at Silvio's in Chicago, and guess what the drummer was playing? Yep! Ducos!! They could have been Slingerlands or Kents, but I couldn't tell for sure. The picture was grainy and the set was partially obstructed. The badge was visible on the snare but indistinguishable, possibly round, oval, cloud-shaped, or wavy edged. I had the same trouble identifying the lugs. But there they were, ducos in all their glory! The set was a bass, shell tom, white or pearl deep snare, hi-hats, and a large china cymbal. How funky. Now I REALLY want to complete my set!

Golden Mercµry

Will do, I'm looking at a drum that I'm going to make a move on to start the process, the hardest thing so far has been trying to find an old record player so I can modify it to turn the drum on while I shoot it.

Oh and the Howlin Wolf story is awesome!

"Rich K, any more info on Donny at drumforum.org? I couldn't find him. I'd be interested to see his work and perhaps use his services. You also mentioned the small tom and bass drum on ebay with the wide gold stripes were stage band types. I'm not familiar with that description. What constitutes a stage band type? (If VDF adds asterisks to "constitutes", I'm just asking what the difference between stage band and regular drums are.)

You also mentioned the mahogany interior era. Can you give me a little more information about that? I've noticed that in some years snares and bass drums may have mahogany interiors while the toms don't. Am I correct? Were there years where all the drums had mahogany interiors? I guess this is pretty basic historical information, but I'm not familiar with it. I've seen deeper reenforcement rings in Radio Kings, which I don't prefer over the smaller beveled late-50's and 60's-type sound rings. Were there years where the drums were mahogany with the beveled sound rings?"

Here's a post from Donny...join and contact him...he does nice ducos from what I hear...

http://www.drumforum.org/index.php?/topic/22287-slingy-snare-i-beilt/

Slingerland's stage band drums are the toms and basses with center mounted snare lugs.

Check out the Slingerland shell history under the identification section on this site...yes, some sets went out with mahogany interior shells on the bass and maple on the toms, probably when they were transitioning from one layup to the next...

Hey fellow Head Bangers:

I just found some very interesting information on Duco finishes. Check out this link:

http://books.google.com/books?id=0oKUaVps3G4C&pg=PT1&lpg=PT1&dq=duco+finish+furniture&source=bl&ots=EWDjlgpVnB&sig=Sb-KLhF-AOMyZrJWISoRuldT984&hl=en&ei=cHPwStqCKcPKlAe27Mn6CA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7&ved=0CCIQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=duco%20finish%20furniture&f=false

It is a portion of a book on the history of furniture finishes that includes Duco finishes.

Perhaps everyone here already knows what a Duco finish is. I'd never heard the word before and assumed it meant the paint pattern. For those who don't know, Duco is a very specific type of finish made from cotton, patented by the du Pont Company. Turns out the word "Duco" is short for "du Pont Cotton".

Before Duco, a painted finish (as opposed to hand rubbed finishes like oils and waxes) consisted of shellac dissolved in alcohol, which makes varnish. Duco's use of cotton was a technological breakthrough. It doesn't lose it's lustre, is easy to clean, is impervious to hot or cold liquids, hard to scratch, is almost as durable as the wood itself, and becomes an integral part of the wood. Doesn't sound so cheap now, does it? No wonder it was used on drums!

I spoke to a former automobile/motorcycle painter this weekend. He told me one can still find this type of paint today, but only in very specific outlets. According to him the fumes are toxic and one must wear a full protective suit with an external air supply and be in a filtered, isolated environment when using this stuff. So much for the hobbyist painting his own drum, but as someone else already suggested, an auto painter could probably do it and get the color spot-on.

Anyway, it's an interesting link. Check it out, Duco fans!

GM

[COLOR="DarkRed"]lnteresting - l do wonder if that's the same stuff as what is on old drums though - my understanding has always been that 'Duco' referred to "two-color" (i.e. DUal-COlor)[/COLOR]