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Re 70's Ludwig Supraphonic w/silver badge

Posts: 617 Threads: 7
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After reading the theories and conjecture about silver badges, from deep thinkers like myself (and others), I emailed a former Ludwig employee.

Here's the short version:

1. There were always things like running out of badges and using what they had.

2.If they had to hit certain production numbers they shipped with whatever badges they had.

3. In that era customers didn't care what kind of badge came on a drum.

4. Sometimes the badge manufacturer sent boxes of Blue and Olive badges with the color missing, for "whatever reason", an obvious error from the badge supplier.

5. Certain assemblers that saw only the badge, and not what color it was, and used the silver badges.

6. If there was not an inspector on the line that day, all silver badges could have been shipped.

7. Whatever the reason, anyone who would know has passed on.

My theory is: whatever explanation is the most simple and logical....

Posted on 3 years ago
#1
Posts: 2753 Threads: 132
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That "use what we have... just ship the stuff" policy was not unique to Ludwig. Fender and Gibson collectors and other assorted self-proclaimed authorities have argued forever about the authenticity of oddball instruments that made it out of the factory. I told the great Leo Fender that people at the NAMM show, where we introduced the first vintage reissue guitars, told me that the pick guard screws on the '52 Tele reissue were the wrong type. Mr. Fender laughed heartily and told me: "Son, when I ran low on things like that screw, I grabbed the closest line-worker, handed him one of the screws, and told him to take the truck to a certain hardware store. He should then get ten pounds of the closest thing they had to this screw even if it had a different type of head". Running changes were the rule rather than the exception. Badges, identification stickers, and decals were often subject to substitutions.

No matter how far you push the envelope, it is still stationery.
Posted on 3 years ago
#2
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BEC and leedybdp!

You both bring up very logical reasons! We've come to a place in time where every detail of every instrument is scrutinized and if there is something found that doesn't adhere to what the majority of instruments show, then it must be some type of rare or uncatalogued instrument!

As both of you have surmised, the simplest...and most likely the best...explanation is that the line workers used what they had on hand...period!!

-Mark

Posted on 3 years ago
#3
Posts: 5176 Threads: 188
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I think there is a strong possibility that BEC is correct about the badge supplier being at fault. I can imagine there was a coil of metal that was fed through some kind of conveyor that stamped and painted them. Maybe the paint sprayer had some air in the line or it didn't get switched on in time, as the string of badges sailed past without receiving any paint. Ludwig tended to use up whatever came into the hands of the assembly line, so it wouldn't surprise me if they paid no attention to the fact that some were unpainted. As BEC said, no one cared about that stuff, in those days.

"God is dead." -Nietzsche

"Nietzsche is dead." -God
Posted on 3 years ago
#4
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So that's why my otherwise flat grey Dayton Rogers set has a speckled grey floor tom with star washers on the leg mounts and a crossed-out label originally intended for the Banner snare drum that had been out of production for some time. As Bobby Chiasson was fond of saying, it was the new guy on Monday. And look at that paint run. Where was QC that day?

I'm going to file with the new Rogers company for a warranty claim. :)

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Posted on 3 years ago
#5
Posts: 2010 Threads: 19
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I've always assumed that the silver badges were the result of an error on the part of the supplier. What confuses me is the three digit hand engraved numbers. Why did they bother doing that when they also shipped out lots of numberless B/O badges (another supplier screw up for sure). And if they just went ahead and used them why aren't there a LOT more of them floating around. Figure the badges probably came in lots of 1000 or more (or at minimum 500) and a whole roll (they came in rolls that had to be snapped apart into single badges) would be silver.

I'm not saying your source is wrong...just thinking deeply on the topic. Due to point #7 it's doubtful we will ever have a definitive answer. The other points make sense but where did they all go?

Posted on 3 years ago
#6
Posts: 617 Threads: 7
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From K.O.

I've always assumed that the silver badges were the result of an error on the part of the supplier. What confuses me is the three digit hand engraved numbers. Why did they bother doing that when they also shipped out lots of numberless B/O badges (another supplier screw up for sure). And if they just went ahead and used them why aren't there a LOT more of them floating around. Figure the badges probably came in lots of 1000 or more (or at minimum 500) and a whole roll (they came in rolls that had to be snapped apart into single badges) would be silver. I'm not saying your source is wrong...just thinking deeply on the topic. Due to point #7 it's doubtful we will ever have a definitive answer. The other points make sense but where did they all go?

You're thinking way too deeply KO.

Maybe there's not a LOT of silver badged drums around is they only got used for one day, or by one worker, til an inspector caught the error?

I'd opine the simplest answer is most likely the correct answer.

Posted on 3 years ago
#7
Posts: 2753 Threads: 132
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Another possibility is that this was an indicator of drums that were deemed to be factory "seconds". Unless there is someone, who worked on the production line when these drums were made who can 'splain it to us, we can only guess about them.

No matter how far you push the envelope, it is still stationery.
Posted on 3 years ago
#8
Posts: 2010 Threads: 19
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You're thinking way too deeply KO.Maybe there's not a LOT of silver badged drums around is they only got used for one day, or by one worker, til an inspector caught the error?I'd opine the simplest answer is most likely the correct answer.

You're probably right Bun. I do like to ponder these things too much. Doesn't seem to effect the value one way or the other. Which is the most important thing.

Posted on 3 years ago
#9
Posts: 617 Threads: 7
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From leedybdp

Another possibility is that this was an indicator of drums that were deemed to be factory "seconds". Unless there is someone, who worked on the production line when these drums were made who can 'splain it to us, we can only guess about them.

Ludwig did not sell factory seconds before 1999 that I'm aware of?

And, if the drums were factory seconds, they likely would have been disassembled and the bad parts scrapped.

That's what they did with out of date and non selling hardware and parts back then.

Posted on 3 years ago
#10
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