My ears have definitely matured over the years. That is apparent when you go over the kits and cymbals I've owned. But, I've also lost quite a bit of my hearing...so maybe it balances out??? Anyway, I'm going with single layer on the wing and double layer on the floor. That helps get a wider step and a bit more depth out of the bottom end.

Side note - I'm going to pick up a handful of Amb and see what I will see. I'm going to put them on both my Luddy 13's and 16's and do a side by side. That will be a fun side project - compare the REAL DEAL Luddy drum to the Standard Luddy drum. I've already done a preliminary and got the results I had expected - no diff. I'm going to do it a bit more scientifically now. Should be a kick!

I had to tension this tom a bit more tighter than I like. But, with that being said, I worked with several different heads and came up with what I think is a good sound. It doesn't sing as much as the Slingerland 13, but it's nice. I like it. You were right LuddyDude, I had to tension both heads tighter to get it to speak out. It really is pleasing now. Thanks for all the assist on this. I haven't played a vintage kit in years. In fact, they weren't vintage when I owned them. So, I had forgotten about these finer points. I got so used to sharp edges and isolation mounts over the years that I wasn't ready for this. The Slingerland tom sings out just fine. I attribute this to the mount and the thinner shell. Anyway, thanks for the assist. You woke up my old ears.

Hey Michael,

When I owned those drums, I ran them on the RIMS mounts and there were no "thump" problems.

Exactly. The problem occurs with the ORIGINAL type mount, not when on RIMS. Careful finetuning will fix the problem as posted above.....

The only reason I posted that, was because I actually owned those exact shells and sold them to mcjnic. So I was just reaffirming nothing is wrong with the shell.

These shells are absolute GEMS! There is nothing wrong with the shells. There's a lot wrong with my memory, though. I had forgotten about the rail mount deadening effect. I played several kits in my youth with this setup and totally forgot about this over the years. I've owned an obscene amount of drum kits since those days and just 'forgot'. These guys here have reminded me to tension the heads a bit more. I sincerely had not remembered that. I'm so grateful to be a part of this forum. I learn and relearn so much. Thanks guys!

Oh, I agree that there wouldn't be anything wrong with the shells.....its just normal effect for when you use an original type mount instead of RIMS. But, there are ways around this..... ;)

I agree with Ludwig-dude on 95% of drums. That is to say, 95% of the drums out there with the thump problem can be fine tuned to *minimize* the issue. I think there is likely at least 5% of the thumpers which cannot be helped by tuning.

I say this only because I own one of those 5%'ers. I tuned, retuned, re-retuned and then tuned again... high, low, medium, etc... all the time the drum was hanging on the mount. There were moments where the drum sounded better, but none were ever as open sounding as having the drum suspended.

This was with a Kent tom by the way, not a Ludwig.

Hmmm......this may be a longshot....have you tried genuine calfskin heads on it? Real calfskin can sometimes work better since it conforms to the bearing edge and its irregularities rather than modern mylar heads that just basically sit on top of the edge. They are more expensive and can sometimes be a pain with constant retuning when the weather changes, but the sound!

If I could, I'd re-head at least one of my kits with calfskin heads. That aside, the tom in question sounds very open so long as it's (A) Not mounted with the Ludwig-Like Kent mount or (B) is not sitting in a snare stand. This leads me to believe that any contact with the shell or even the hoops, is causing the tom to distort it's shape.

When suspended from a RIMS type mount, the tom sings just fine. So I think that heads are not the issue here. It's the thin shell and the force exerted by having the weight of the tom put on the tiny 3" X 3" square of the mount, or the weight of the tom when sitting in a snare basket. I tried the snare stand in a variety of positions and tensions. At a nearly flat position with no tension on the hoop, it was fairly open sounding. But if I removed the tom from the basket and held it by the top hoop, it rang out even longer.

Just rotating the tom slightly left or right when in the snare basket made a big difference in the *ring time*. The problem here was getting it to stay in the optimum position when playing it. The least amount of movement in the snare basket would cause the tom to choke out.

Again, this tom seems to be highly sensitive to contact, be it on the shell or the hoops. For my satisfaction, a RIMS mount was the best route. I would have used an Optimount but I don't like the fact that it contacts both the top and bottom hoops.

With the RIMS style mount, the only real contact with the drum is the top hoop. For whatever reason, this made the tom open up as if I were holding it by the top hoop.

Yes, it's not as stable and tends to bounce around a bit if you are a heavy hitter, but I am not (or no longer) a heavy hitter and the RIMS mount doesn't really take away from the look that much, IMHO.

just my $0.03 on the subject ;)