Only Admins can see this message.
Data Transition still in progress. Some functionality may be limited until the process is complete.
Processing Attachment, Gallery - 134.07098%

'Project Kit' Basics

Loading...

This thread is mostly for people who are considering taking on their first vintage drum restoration project. There is a lot you need to know and to think about before taking on such a project. Otherwise, you could lose your shirt on it, get really frustrated and then chances are good that the kit will end up collecting dust in a corner. Money down the drain. If your knowledge of vintage drums is weak or lacking, you might want to consider educating yourself before taking on a vintage drum project. Before anything else, you need a good working knowledge of drums and how they are constructed.

In order to help insure success, you’ll need the following:

1. Basic tool, wood-working and painting/finishing skills:

I was fortunate in that when I was in my 20’s I held down assorted and sundry jobs in order to support my young family. For instance, I worked for a year with a cabinetmaker. On that job I learned basic woodworking skills, how to operate power-tools and shop safety. I also worked for six months with a professional painting outfit. I learned how to prep paint jobs, how to work with different materials and how to properly apply them, all -basic skills- that have made my drum restoration projects successful. If you do not possess 'some' experience working with wood, basic (household,) power tools, metal (hoops) and a little knowledge of painting/finishing, (you don't need to be an expert,) then maybe vintage drum restoration isn’t the best choice for you.

2. Know how to buy:

Choosing a kit worthy of restoration is not as easy as it looks. I’ll just list some things to look for and some things to look out for that will help you to decide whether to buy or pass on any given kit. First, the list of stuff to pass on immediately.

Do Not Buy if any of the following is present:

a. Damaged shells. Cracks, warping, or really bad drilling blowouts in the wood.

b. Drums are Out-of-round: I always have a tape measure in my pocket when I go to look at a potential project kit. Simply measure across the shell at different points along the rim and compare numbers. Any drum shell that is more than 1/8th inch out of round is an immediate Pass/No Sale.

c. Signs of; water damage, mold, mildew, or fungus. Self explanatory, if you see granular black crap, or nasty organic-looking stains growing inside the shell… walk away from the deal at warp speed.

d. Badly incomplete kits: i.e.; too much missing hardware, lugs, hoops, mounts etc.

e. Drums are ‘missing’ from the set: Sometimes you can get away with buying a partial kit if it’s rare enough. However, finding matching floor toms or snare drums can end up being expensive and more often than not, it takes forever to find the missing drum in the first place. When it comes to project kits, I want them to be ‘all there’ in terms of components at time of purchase.

f. Too many holes! Some holes, ok, they can be filled, but too many holes and the value and integrity of the shell has been compromised. Pass if there are just -way too many- holes in any shells.

When to buy/pull the trigger

a. If the kit is ‘all there:’ If all of the drums ‘are there’ at time of purchase, and the drums themselves are ‘sound’ then it’s well worth considering for your project.

b. The price is ‘right’: Intuition will tell you this bullet point should be ‘a’ on the list, but if the prospective project kit is incomplete, you won’t make it to this step! Right price is such an individual, case by case basis issue that I will not elaborate on it here. Just as a rule of thumb, and to help you gauge the price you should pay, you do not want to pay more than a 1/3 rd. to ½ the price of a good (equivalent brand and era) player kit, for your project kit.

c. The parts are all, or mostly there: This is key when trying to figure out final cost. Parts, especially vintage parts, can be very hard to find and expensive. Example: If the project kit costs say, $350. for four drums; snare, rack tom, floor tom and bass drum. There are several lugs or mount parts missing that will cost you another $250. Because it is a project kit, it’ll likely need to be rewrapped, another $250. in wrap alone and that price only applies if you wrap the drums yourself. We’re already up to $850 and we haven’t figured in a new set of heads all around and maybe a pedal and some stands to compliment the drums. We’re at $1000. And… it didn’t take a lot to get us here. If a player grade kit from the same company and era of manufacture sells for $700. to $850. at ebay, then you’re much better off waiting for a nice player to come along. If you ‘must have’ the prospective project kit, then you need to know that although it will be a great ‘keeper’, you’ll never in a million years recoup your investment on a resale. That said, refurbished project kits are the best, you can gig them worry-free and have a great sounding set of drums to play.

d. The work needed to put the drums ‘right’ is do-able: Don’t allow things like; loose re-rings, or wrap that is lifted at the seam, stop you from buying the kit. It is the repair of precisely these kinds of ‘age issues’ that fixing up an old kit is all about. The proper fixing/correction of such issues is where you derive the most satisfaction and sense of accomplishment from ‘a job well-done’ at the end of the project. Plus, you get ‘bragging rights’ if you do a good job.

Really, the most important thing to remember is simply to use your own common sense and better judgments when considering a kit for a restoration project. I’ve been restoring, refurbishing and customizing drum kits for 25 years. It has been fun, gratifying work and even ‘at times’ lucrative. Money is not why I do it though. I do it because I –love- doing it. I love drums and I love playing great sounding drums.

If you can add, then you can figure out how much the final cost of your project kit will be. Be sure to run the numbers though before plunking down a penny on a kit that needs work. If you’re not certain, then use ebay to look up the prices things like vintage parts have sold for recently. After you have those numbers in hand… do the math! If it’s a good deal and a do-able project, go for it.

I hope some of the guys who have experience with restoring vintage kits will chime in on this post and add their comments and helpful hints. Mostly, I hope the thread helps some guys who may have been considering doing a project kit to be better prepared. Like I said, it’s a fun and very gratifying hobby/pass-time.

The floor is open for your input gentlemen…

John

Too many great drums to list here!

http://www.walbergandauge.com/VintageVenue.htm
Posted on 11 years ago
#1
Loading...

Very cool thread John. Your points are all well made.

I might suggest that anyone wanting to give this a shot, try looking at an MIJ kit as these can be found very cheaply and there won't be a lot of crying should you make some mistakes.

tnsquint
Very proud owner of a new Blaemire Snare 6.5 x 14 made by Jerry Jenkins "Drumjinx"
Posted on 11 years ago
#2
Loading...

Ok, I will try.

I have only been at this for about two years now so I am by no means an expert drum restorer. I totally agree with tnsquint here, the drums that I have flipped and made money on were MIJ drums that I bought very cheep, but like John mentioned, they were not missing a ton of parts either. My cabinet making and finishing skills are what made my drums sell. I have been finishing wood for most of my life so it comes pretty easy for me. But I am not in it to make money anymore, I am actually more attracted to finding nice vintage kits to just clean up and keep for myself, add to the collection. Sure its fun to do the veneers and the fancy finishes but the best thing to me is finding drums with original wrap and hardware, taking them home and cleaning them up. Restoring drums to flip and restoring drums to keep are two different things. If your gonna keep them then your not as worried about the investment. If you want to flip drums then you better find a kit at garage sale for 20 bucks. Restoring drums is a lot of fun, I cant believe how addicted I have become to it. I cant add too much advice, John pretty much covered the do's and dont's. If you are considering on restoring a kit then you have already took a very important step by finding this forum. With all of the talented, knowledgeable people on this site you can do it!


Thank you!
Jeff C

"Enjoy every sandwich" Warren Zevon
Posted on 11 years ago
#3
Loading...

John, you pretty much nailed the criteria. It is advice well worth the following. It will save heartache and preserve marital bliss. Well, maybe not preserve it, but will certainly take one thing off the argument list.

Missing drums is one of the most difficult things to avoid being its victim, especially when you are looking at a bass and tom, with or without a snare drum in the most nobody-cool-but-me wrap you have never seen before... and the floor tom is gone. Like John said... run.

Rogers Drums Big R era 1975-1984 Dating Guide.
http://www.vintagedrumforum.com/showthread.php?t=24048
Posted on 11 years ago
#4
Loading...

Most beginners forget to consider the final cost of the kit -before- they dive in and buy it. New heads for instance are a real expense, but beginners will consistently forget to 'figure it in' to the final price. As a result, when the smoke clears, they're left wondering why the job cost hundreds more than they originally counted on. Crunching the numbers up-front saves a lot of regret or disappointment later.

I learned all this stuff 'on the nut' by doing it. I made all the rookie mistakes and it cost me at times, real dollars. But I learned my lessons well. It's important, especially on a site like this one where people come to ask questions and find out how to execute repairs themselves, to get as much of this hard-earned wisdom written down so people don't have to repeat the same mistakes over and over before they learn. I'm 64, 'been dere, done dat.' I figure it's time to pass on some of the tidbits I picked up along the way and help others avoid some of the more common traps and pitfalls.

Fixing up vintage drum kits is so satisfying and rewarding. I hope more guys who already have some basic woodworking skills will try their hand at it. Start with MIJ kits until you get your sea-legs. Once you know what you're doing, tackling the repair, or restoration of say something like a 1950's Round Badge kit will represent a fun challenge and the successful completion of the project will reward you as a player/restorer for many years.

I encourage guys to do it. Just do your homework first. The better prepared you are, the better the end results will be. My personal work ethic/philosophy is; I will not move on to the next step in a job until I have completed the step I'm working on perfectly. Or at least as perfect as I can make it. If you take care with each individual operation, all the while doing your best on each step along the way, the cumulative result will be a truly spectacular looking set of drums.

John

Too many great drums to list here!

http://www.walbergandauge.com/VintageVenue.htm
Posted on 11 years ago
#5
Loading...

Great thread, John. This is invaluable advice for anyone even thinking about the word "restore".

••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••
50's WFL/Ludwig Black Super Classic
60's Ludwig Silver Sparkle Club Date
Posted on 11 years ago
#6
Loading...

From carter

Great thread, John. This is invaluable advice for anyone even thinking about the word "restore".

Yep, there are thousands of threads in this forum on how to execute repairs for very specific problems that are commonly encountered. VDF has the 'How To' part covered. What doesn't get discussed much is the 'How To Buy' the 'What to look out for when making a purchase' part. Although I no longer own a music store, I still approach all of my purchases and sales like a 'dealer' like a pro. As with anything else, most of it involves applying common sense, but it's good for people to know the thought process behind it. How to -systematically- evaluate a potential purchase and how to -run the numbers.- I only wish I had somebody whispering in my ear when I started out, I could have avoided a ton of grief and saved a ton of money!

I'm hoping this stuff is helpful to some members.

John

Too many great drums to list here!

http://www.walbergandauge.com/VintageVenue.htm
Posted on 11 years ago
#7
Loading...

Great info for people just learning how to restore drums. Pretty much everything I've learned about restoring drums I learned from this site. Like John I have learned that replacing multiple parts on drums can make the cost of the drum more than it is worth.

70's Ludwig Blue Sparkle 12/13/16/18/22
70's Ludwig Natural Maple 12/13/16/18/22
65 Ludwig Silver Sparkle 13/16/20
70's Ludwig Walnut Cortex 12/13/16/22
Snares; 60's Acrolite/70's Acrolite/70's Black Beauty/
70's Natural Maple
Posted on 11 years ago
#8
Loading...

> replacing multiple parts on drums can make the cost of the drum more than it is worth.

So important to price the project kit out accurately before you buy it. Once you make it a habit to research and assign a price/value to everything needed, you'll know right away whether you're better off buying a nice 'player grade' kit, or refinishing one for yourself. No guess-work involved, the numbers will be staring you in the face.

Making educated buys can come from the mistakes and hard-learned lessons you make along the way, or... you can learn from the mistakes of others. Thanks for chiming in... it was an important point to emphasize about why it is so necessary to find out how much parts will cost -before- buying.

Great tip...

John

Too many great drums to list here!

http://www.walbergandauge.com/VintageVenue.htm
Posted on 11 years ago
#9
Loading...

Don't get suckered by nostalgia, your own, or the sellers.

You aren't buying his memories. If the price for the drums includes memories, walk away. Most likely the price of reality and the price of the nostalgia are going to be too far apart. All one is likely to do is offend the seller. And don't let your own memories (exactly like my first kit) cloud your judgment.

Rogers Drums Big R era 1975-1984 Dating Guide.
http://www.vintagedrumforum.com/showthread.php?t=24048
Posted on 11 years ago
#10
  • Share
  • Report
Action Another action Something else here