Hi. A few years ago, I started wondering how long it would be before the collectibles were all collected. As far as finding something that might be considered a really good deal....I think those days are gone now -at least in terms of Ebay.
So...what happens next? What do the collectors do when their collections are complete?
Hey O...A true collector never stops looking.EVER...Im finding a lot of guys like to trade."Your Maris for my Mantle"Remember doing that?...Trading keeps it fresh because most guys could never play all the drums they have,live that is.They look at them,tweak em,change heads and wires every so often,then look for another diamond in the rough...its entertainment for most of us....got to go now,there,s a garage sale down the road......ya never knowExcited
The other thing with collecting (apart from the obvious near narcotic effect on people) is that it seems to pan out to both ends of the market in regard to what is seen as desirable (and I'm thinking of stuff being manufactured today or in the recent past). Clearly the popular stuff will be sought after in 20 or 30 years because it was the stuff today's kids couldn't afford at the time and they want to fulfil that dream no matter how belatedly.
But let's look at the word "rare". Now a current "vintage" product (drum or anything) being labelled as rare can be a result of one two things - that in it's day the object was not produced in large numbers because it was an expensive product that kept it's circulation limited or......that it was simply unpopular or badly marketed.
Scenario one speaks for itself but became increasingly rare when mass production and mass marketing (particularly for drums) became the norm (and for most of us I guess that is the sixties). The idea was to sell as many as possible to whoever was buying (except for custom orders - and there's been discussions elsewhere in the forum about how rare that was until the fairly recent past).
So for the most part, "rare" simply means it wasn't popular (rightly or wrongly) in the first place. Unless you're an obscurantist collecting just for the sake of having something no one else has (and I think we've all been a bit seduced by that at one time or other), this might not be the way forward to actually having playable functioning kits.
The rise of "custom" and smaller manufacturers over the past few years is clearly going to redress that balance but tomorrow's (and I'm talking "any second now" rather than five years from now) vintage rarities are probably something that didn't catch on or through financial mismanagement hit the deck before their time. Sleishman double bass drum pedals, anyone? Now there was a product that was more than five minutes ahead of its time.
OK that rambled a little more than necessary but I hope you got my drift.
Besides the expense and issues of proper storage and the display environment that a vintage drum collector incurs, I think vintage drum collectors currently have it very good. When compared to other collectables including other instruments such as guitars or violins, vintage drums are affordable. For example, you can still buy the brand, model and year (vintage) of that history making snare drum usually for under $1000.00 most history making drum sets for under $3000.00. Vintage drums in many cases sell for less than custom made drums. That does not happen with guitars or violins.
The problem I see with drums is that just like other fine wooden instruments, the humidity must be at about 45% constantly with a temperature of 72 degrees. A 20’ by 22’ by 8’ room can display and shelve eight drum sets and fifty snare drums and some hardware options with four drum sets set up and ready to play. A room like this will hold 200 vintage guitars with 40 or 50 displayed and ready to play. When I emailed a friend about a transition badge Ludwig drum set I had picked up dated 4/14/59 I told him that I could buy more than 150 of these sets for the price of one guitar and he answered, “That would take a lot of storage space.” Yes Sir! It would!
I see storage and display as the only possible the only real issue currently for the vintage drum collector to consider. Storage and display costs may not be offset with an appreciation in the vintage drum value challenging the investment wisdom of vintage drums.
The other day three of us were playing and jamming together on three vintage drum kits at the same time. It was a blast. And as we considered the pros and cons of each vintage drum set and the drum maker… it rekindled that vintage drum collector bug within me. Vintage drum collecting is fun and somewhat affordable. All things relative.
As mentioned above I think trading among vintage drum collectors may have great significance and possibilities for those of us who are vintage drum enthusiasts. Some of the reasons are listed in this thread and because of space issues. Vintage drums are not for the garage or shed anymore. I think there may be a business opportunity here for someone. Maybe something like netflix, for a monthly fee of let's say $50 you get to have two vintage drum items, when you return the two vintage drum items you then get to select two other vintage drum items to examine and play etc at your convenience. I can see it now, “Yes sir I would like to return these two Ludwig Tambourines and please give me the WMP pre badge Dyna-Sonic and the transition badge Sky Blue 8 lug 6.5 snare drum”. “I will return these items at my convenience!”
There might be a few details to work out first before selecting this as your business model.
Just my two cents worth! Sorry it was so long!
Dave
Hi. A few years ago, I started wondering how long it would be before the collectibles were all collected. As far as finding something that might be considered a really good deal....I think those days are gone now -at least in terms of Ebay. So...what happens next? What do the collectors do when their collections are complete?
Not even close....I find and buy a lot of very rare snare drums off of eBay all year-round...They constantly surface...I don't think that we have hit the bottom yet...
...are collectors collections ever complete?...I still have some holes to fill in my collection.
Mike Curotto
Hey! great points, fellows! Thanks for all the responses.
Mike,
I am especially glad you responded because I know you have an awesome collection of snare drums. But....I think I've heard you mention many times that you don't really care for the sound of most of them. Is it the look of them that makes you such an avid collector? I like the look of many vintage drums. I admire the quality of the parts -the little engineering gadgets and all that stuff...even if it doesn't add up to modern applications in terms of sound. What is it that you find attractive about collecting?
handyman (Dave) Great post, man!
O-Lugs,
I know I'm not the Mike you were talking to, and I am just a baby about collecting...but I really identify with this subject and this thread.
I really do enjoy looking at and admiring these beautiful drums, but it also gives me the bug to play them even though I am not a drummer. Everyday I go down in my basement and sit at one of the kits and work on some kind of beat - it is really primitive but very enjoyable and I am getting better at it. I have 3 really good drummer friends and when they come over we sit at the kits and play. I do love the sound of the drums too.
The other aspect of collecting is getting things that you like and enjoy, it gives you a double benefit, one is in the hard value the other is in the pleasure. Eye candy and ear candy - and you can throw in the idea of having something unique or rare that isn't being made anymore to add value.
It is really fun and a great sense of satifaction when you finally get something that you have been seeking after for a while that is hard to find. Each drum or drum set also has its own unique history and I find that really interesting too. Not only how and when they were made, but who played them, when and where they were bought and played is really great to find out too. There are alot of interesting stories associated with each vintage drum and drum set.
My interest is really limited to the colorful finishes and kits of the late 50's and early 60's. But I can imagine that there are some really interesting stories associated with these historic drums from the Civil War or Revolutionary War.
Drum collecting is like music, art, history, finance and fun all rolled into one! So I think it will keep on generating an interest, but it may become more expensive.
That is just my thoughts from a newcomers point of view.
Thanks Mike
Hey, MikeJtone! Thanks for responding...even though you are another Mike! ;)
I agree with what you have said. I am the same way. I get a certain sense of satisfaction that comes from getting the vintage pieces I am looking for. But, in addition to what you have said, I would like to go back on my initial post and specify a bit further.
I also find the "uncovering a treasure" kind of aspect to collecting to be the real fun of it. What I mean pertains to those times when you go to a yard sale and there is a mint-condition Gretsch kit with Istanbul K's and the nice little old lady who is putting the "$50.00" price tag on them isn't sure if that's asking too much or not....when those kinds of things happen, it's almost like you are meant to be the one to have them.
I really like the mechanical aspects of many of the older drums. They were certainly trying more "things" with drums at certain points in time. Many of the ideas just didn't stand the test of time as far as practicality and so forth...but there were some very cool ideas, nonetheless. You can go back and look at those oldies and see how the designers were thinking -how they were trying ideas.
Hey, MikeJtone! Thanks for responding...even though you are another Mike! ;) I agree with what you have said. I am the same way. I get a certain sense of satisfaction that comes from getting the vintage pieces I am looking for. But, in addition to what you have said, I would like to go back on my initial post and specify a bit further. I also find the "uncovering a treasure" kind of aspect to collecting to be the real fun of it. What I mean pertains to those times when you go to a yard sale and there is a mint-condition Gretsch kit with Istanbul K's and the nice little old lady who is putting the "$50.00" price tag on them isn't sure if that's asking too much or not....when those kinds of things happen, it's almost like you are meant to be the one to have them.
O-Lugs,
I have a story to share that is on this very aspect of collecting - it involves me, a drum set & a friend. My friend is the guy who has hunted and found gems like that Gretsch kit that you mentioned above from ads in the newspaper, at yard sales & estate sales. I was the guy who was looking for a specific hard to find drum set and found exactly what I was so diligently looking for and it was not on Ebay or through the internet, but rather good old local word of mouth. I really feel like I found a gem that alot of people would love to have found. I paid more like a fair price, but I got something that I was searching for and am extremely pleased and satisfied that I found it and bought it!
I will be posting up this story with some pictures soon. Please read it when I do a give me your opinion - it is a true story!
Mike
I am looking forward to reading it, Mike.Burger Kin
