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players verses collectors Last viewed: 8 minutes ago

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With all due respect oddball, the evolution of music and the drum set's important role in that evolution has nothing to do with taste. It is as relevant to our history as anything else when it comes to shaping how people live. Is the evolution of the cell phone not important in understanding our history? The evolution of weapons? The evolution of radio? TV? Architecture? The labor movement? Civil Rights? Business? Economic policy shaped the drum industry as it shaped every other industry in our country over the past 100 years. Its just interesting stuff! Collecting drums plays an important role in preserving our history for those who are specifically interested in drums, and it also is a way to make a little money if thats what you are into it for. No one is right or wrong for doing what they do. Im sure (as with everything) there are people who take it too far for the wrong reasons....but again that is all just perception.

I think the issue is this: Collecting drums is a history lesson if that is what you want it to be. It is "hoarding" if thats what you do. Its a legitimate business if thats what you make it. Its a hobby if you choose. Some people just happen to own a vintage kit and play it as their only kit. There is no point in arguing what is right or wrong...relevant or not relevant. Everyone is different. I understand that you were just presenting a point of view and I think that is totally cool. There is no need to argue.

-Adam

Posted on 14 years ago
#31
Posts: 5176 Threads: 188
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From thisbright14

With all due respect oddball, the evolution of music and the drum set's important role in that evolution has nothing to do with taste. It is as relevant to our history as anything else when it comes to shaping how people live. Is the evolution of the cell phone not important in understanding our history? The evolution of weapons? The evolution of radio? TV? Architecture? The labor movement? Civil Rights? Business? Economic policy shaped the drum industry as it shaped every other industry in our country over the past 100 years. Its just interesting stuff! Collecting drums plays an important role in preserving our history for those who are specifically interested in drums, and it also is a way to make a little money if thats what you are into it for. No one is right or wrong for doing what they do. Im sure (as with everything) there are people who take it too far for the wrong reasons....but again that is all just perception.I think the issue is this: Collecting drums is a history lesson if that is what you want it to be. It is "hoarding" if thats what you do. Its a legitimate business if thats what you make it. Its a hobby if you choose. Some people just happen to own a vintage kit and play it as their only kit. There is no point in arguing what is right or wrong...relevant or not relevant. Everyone is different. I understand that you were just presenting a point of view and I think that is totally cool. There is no need to argue.-Adam

Agreed 100%. Great post.

"God is dead." -Nietzsche

"Nietzsche is dead." -God
Posted on 14 years ago
#32
Posts: 6524 Threads: 37
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From thisbright14

With all due respect oddball, the evolution of music and the drum set's important role in that evolution has nothing to do with taste. It is as relevant to our history as anything else when it comes to shaping how people live. Is the evolution of the cell phone not important in understanding our history? The evolution of weapons? The evolution of radio? TV? Architecture? The labor movement? Civil Rights? Business? Economic policy shaped the drum industry as it shaped every other industry in our country over the past 100 years. Its just interesting stuff! Collecting drums plays an important role in preserving our history for those who are specifically interested in drums, and it also is a way to make a little money if thats what you are into it for. No one is right or wrong for doing what they do. Im sure (as with everything) there are people who take it too far for the wrong reasons....but again that is all just perception.I think the issue is this: Collecting drums is a history lesson if that is what you want it to be. It is "hoarding" if thats what you do. Its a legitimate business if thats what you make it. Its a hobby if you choose. Some people just happen to own a vintage kit and play it as their only kit. There is no point in arguing what is right or wrong...relevant or not relevant. Everyone is different. I understand that you were just presenting a point of view and I think that is totally cool. There is no need to argue.-Adam

Arguement was never in the picture,..There is no right or wrong, like you state. Everything can fit into an evolutionary book, but I don`t think we will ever have a National Drum Day,..National Cell Phone Day, or National Internet Day. However we do have Martin Luther King Day !! That`s the angle I was comming at !!

Musical instruments will always be collectable, more so than many things because music is universal and has been around forever, will be around forever because everyone can do it and like good food, music leaves a good taste in ya !!

The drum kit will never be worshiped,..but the war drum will !! (two totally different drums)

It`s a drum,.....Hit It !!

.....76/#XK9207 Phonic Sound Machine D454/D-505 snares !i
Posted on 14 years ago
#33
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Whew!!

Well, as the originator of this post, I would like to thank all who have replied so far.

My question was answered with the early responses, although my question was poorly stated by me.

The intent of my question was actually to address drums, not people, as "collectors" or "players".

I wanted to get a reading of how you folks view vintage drums not just necessarily in terms of monetary value, but historical value and importance to yourselves, and how that is affected by the condition of the drums.

Obviously, the post has received some rich responses.

To share my personal experience and thoughts, maybe I had developed the impression that for some, the "perfectly collectible" vintage kit or drum would be the one that is as close as possible to the factory fresh/mint/new condition right-out-of-the-box kit or drum that one wanted but never received as a child. I know that I had a lot of those wants. Maybe that impression is really a reflection of myself.

I am very fortunate to have been able to accumulate a few vintage kits over the years, all of which I have greatly appreciated. Most are imperfect. I perhaps was beginning to wonder about the importance that their imperfections might have to observers, without fully appreciating the importance to myself the opportunity to enjoy the drums while in my possession.

Thought - is it possible that “historical value” could be in the eyes of the beholder, perhaps the one who is appreciating the imperfections and wondering or imagining what thought process or set of circumstances might have taken place so many decades ago to have created that imperfection?

How about an early Gretsch jazz kit that was thrown in the trunk of a taxi in New York City to make a gig in mid-fifties? We're talking about the invention of the 20" bass drum to replace the 26" bass drum to accommodate this!

How about Ringo Starr walking into Ivor Arbitor's shop, and choosing the Ludwig Downbeat kit in Black Oyster Pearl because he liked it and it was in stock! (He originally wanted plain black but it was a six-week special order). That day changed the Ludwig Drum Company and their employees and the future of drummers all over the world forever!

The paper tags in my mid-sixties Rogers Holiday Dayton toms are signed by "Roy" - I'm sure with pride.

If you read the books written about the great American drum companies, you can gain great insight into the companies and their strategies, their endorsees and their employees of the time.

We may not celebrate these things on a national basis, but that doesn't mean they are not historically significant.

Your responses to this post have provided me with a reinforcement of my opinion that the drums of yesterday all have their own important history, deserve our respect, and can provide us with great pleasure, regardless of their condition - and although we may never know exactly what that history was, we know that their imperfections are a reflection of the experience they have provided to their owners throughout the years, and will continue to do so.

To me, this means that over time, we as well will eventually have become a part of their history (and they a part of ours). Moreover, if cared for they will likely survive us, to serve those who possess them in the future.

Thanks again for your responses!

John

50's Gretsch RB 13/16/20 w/Matching Snare Midnight Blue Pearl
60's Gretsch Jasper RB Progressive Jazz Silver Sparkle
Rogers Dayton Top Hat Silver Glass Glitter w/Powertone
'65 Ludwig Super Classic 12/13/16/16/22 Blue Sparkle with Supraphonic 400 Rescue Kit
Slingerland Pre-Badge/Pre-Vent Hole 12/14/18 Blue Agate Pearl w/Matching Snare
No-name MIJ 12/16/20 Red Sparkle Rescue Kit
Tama Starclassic Birch 6-piece Red Aztec Fade w/Matching Snare
Posted on 14 years ago
#34
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Oops - I responded to the wrong post.

Anyway, what I said applies to this post also.

Thanks!

John

50's Gretsch RB 13/16/20 w/Matching Snare Midnight Blue Pearl
60's Gretsch Jasper RB Progressive Jazz Silver Sparkle
Rogers Dayton Top Hat Silver Glass Glitter w/Powertone
'65 Ludwig Super Classic 12/13/16/16/22 Blue Sparkle with Supraphonic 400 Rescue Kit
Slingerland Pre-Badge/Pre-Vent Hole 12/14/18 Blue Agate Pearl w/Matching Snare
No-name MIJ 12/16/20 Red Sparkle Rescue Kit
Tama Starclassic Birch 6-piece Red Aztec Fade w/Matching Snare
Posted on 14 years ago
#35
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I collect to play.

I own a few vintage snares and they are mostly one's I "drooled" over when I was in high school back in the 60s. I wasn't able to own these drums then but I am able to now.

They aren't mint, except maybe for one I own, so they are "player" snares. It's funny because guys in the band mouth's drop when I tell them I'm playing on a 43 or 51 year old snare!

Posted on 14 years ago
#36
Posts: 2753 Threads: 132
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My collection includes some A. Zildjian cymbals and some Rogers Swivo hardware, Walberg & Auge hardware, and Slingerland hardware that I have used since acquiring these items in the 50's through the 70's. I have a few drum sets that are as close to new condition as one could expect for drums that are 35 to 55 years old. I also have some vintage drum sets that show the love marks of being gigged, And, I currently have a couple sets that were a lot of fun to convert orphan drums to gig worthy and road worthy player's drum sets.

One set consists of Leedy orphans and an all original Camco snare drum:

7x11 pre World War Two tom

12x16 1950's marching tenor conversion to floor tom

16x18 1960's floor tom to bass drum conversion

5x14 Oaklawn Camco Tuxedo snare drum with original 3-D Moire Floating Bubbles

I rewrapped the toms and bass drum in new wrap that is a very close match

The other set is made from some Ludwig orphans that had been spray painted black over stripped shells, I rewrapped them in Red Sparkle:

9x13 1963 Clubdate tom

12x15 1950's marching tenor converted to floor tom--separate tension model

14x22 1961 Clubdate bass drum

1960's bongos that had been poorly rewrapped in Silver Sparkle

I use a Black Galaxy Acrolite snare with this set

No matter how far you push the envelope, it is still stationery.
Posted on 14 years ago
#37
Posts: 5550 Threads: 576
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actualy i flipped the title and started a new post but if i new this i would not of man i got a biiiig mouth

April 2nd 1969 scarfed pink champagne holly wood and 65/66 downbeat snare, and , supra same year very minty kit old pies
66/67 downbeat with canister
Super 400 small round knob
1967 super classic obp





once the brass ceases to glitter, and the drum looses its luster, and the stage remains dark, all you have left is the timbre of family.
Posted on 14 years ago
#38
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