Well I thought maybe my diatribe would bore you…guess I was wrong. Hey I’m up for a little back and forth as long as it doesn’t go in the direction of our Sonar friends, huh? Please don’t read into what I wrote that I am an elitist. Yes I have pretty much limited my collecting to Gladstone drums but I have gone after far less prestigious with equal vigor. Even those drums though I believe in a “less is more” restoration approach. Definitely if a pearl drum has been spray painted black, the paint should be removed (with careful consideration on how it is removed). I am seriously thinking of removing the outer finish of the Bellson/Gladstone drum as some time in its life it was brushed with clear enamel. My problem is, fortunately the interior is original sprayed lacquer. I must find a way to remove the enamel without affecting the lacquer. As the enamel is up over part of the bearing edge this could be impossible. The other option…obviously “Let it be. Let it be.” What I objected to in process #1 (Conservation) is the phrase “get the tom back to as close to factory original.” Now this is up to interpretation but I have too often seen a vintage drum, ie a drum with years, that looks like it just came from the factory. That to me (again my opinion) is an oxymoron. A vintage drum should not look like it just came from the factory. It should look like a used (not abused) drum. #2 (Restoration) I think I have covered this with the above except, wrapping a drum should only be considered if it is a) missing a wrap, or, b) missing a large part or its wrap. Rewrapping a drum to match the rest of an existing set, because it is missing a small piece of the wrap, or because it is faded is absurd. Buy a new drum if you want a new drum. That is like changing the bearing edge because you don’t like the way the drum sounds. If you don’t like the way the drum sounds don’t buy it. Or if you have a vintage drum that you don’t care for its sound sell it and buy a drum with a sound that you do like. If you want a drum that looks like it just rolled off the assembly line, go to an assembly line. I noticed in an earlier thread that someone is thinking of sanding a pearl finish because it has faded. Again my opinion but this is just wrong. If you want a new looking drum, buy a new drum.

Round 2?

Best

Chet

Chet, thank you for your reply and Insight, That is what you've always maintained from all the articles you wrote in Not SO Modern Drummer through the years, you never told the complete story about your first Gladstone, thank you for that, You Know when I got to play Arie Lang's Gladstone, It was at a drum show he had 5 of his own companies snare drums lined up, I went through all of them, I commented on the last one being the real Gladstone not sounding as good as the other 4. His reply was yeah I had to have the bearing edges re cut 3 times on the piece of #$^% but seeing as this drum was made for him, by BG. it will not effect the resale value after Arie is gone, Chet it's great to have you here at the Vintage drum Forum, and I and all of us look forward to your future post!!! thank you!

I'm going to show you what in my mind is Conservator - Below are the pictures of the actual tom we're discussing.

Pic #1 is the tom as it was shown on Ebay. Someone had painted it black, then tried to wetsand the paint away which did nothing but remove and dull the finish. The interior had overspray and the drum was missing the bottom hoop, an original leg bracket, and the muffler.

Pic #2 is the tom after I used the skills as defined as a conservator to get the drum back to an original state with original parts. I don't have an updated pic but the drum is now finished. The drum is a B/O badge with no serial number so I'm guessing late '69 model.

I don't think I went anywhere close to out of bounds by returning this drum to it's intented look and condition. It does shine like a new penny but that was polishing with the right materials not a replate.

Next, is a Leedy Parallel made in Dec. '41. I could not find a set of wires for this drum. I looked and looked and finally decided that the only thing that could be done was to make the wires myself. Using the skills as defined by conservator I went about making my own set of wires. They are not original, but in my opinion, the integrity of the drum was not compromised as the only way to make it playable again was to do this. The previous owner had given up and put piano wires on it. BTW it sounds great!

I tend to agree with what is being said. My point is that there is a difference between "patina" and gobs of paint!

Also, there is a difference between a Gladstone snare drum and many mass-produced drums due to the fact that no "kids" ever got their paws on a Billy Gladstone snare drum. Mostly, the people who got those drums knew a thing or two about what they were doing with them.

Comparatively speaking, there were TONS of Ludwig and Slingerland drums that got all kinds of interesting customization, e.g., black enamel paint, flames, interiors painted black, front heads removed to make concert toms/bass drums....etc. These types of abuses simply don't happen to higher-end drums. But "common" drums often got worked over.

That's why I don't see any problem with bringing a drum back from layers of suffocating paint...or re-cutting a chewed bearing edge that got mangled during the concert tom fad....seams glued back down....and I have no problem with buffing out a pitted Supra, either. A Gladstone? yes, I would have a problem buffing that...but not a Supra. See what I'm saying? There IS a certain "line" that you have to respect when it comes to some types of drums, but others are fair game.

Bravo! Ya done good. You took a drum that some might consider sending to the scrap heap and brought it back to life. BUT, as you said, did not replate it and instead found the correct way to breath life into the drum without going overboard. That you fabricated your own snares? I can relate. When I got the Bellson/Gladstone drum (from Louie) it had Taiwan snares on it! I couldn’t believe my eyes when I saw the Taiwan stamp…blasphemy! I replaced them with a vintage set of Slingerland Snappys until I could find the materials (thank you Larry Bunker, may you rest in peace) and fashioned snares the way Gladstone did back in the day, only to change them again. I brought the drum to the 1999 Hollywood Show so Bellson could use it in his clinic. In his historical account of the drum he said it was originally equipped with gut, so now it is gut. I have an analog video of that clinic that I am trying to upload to the MySpace Billy Gladstone site (www.myspace.com/williamdgladstone). There you will see a 1957 video of him playing the drum that is unmistakably “gut.”

All I’m saying is, I believe everyone should give careful consideration before replating, rewrapping, sanding pearl finishes (ouch!) etc. You are just the temporary owner. Like I said would you strip a Stradivarius? Yes if some idiot has put a flame finish on it, no if it looks like an antique, WHICH IT IS.

I was restoring an original 14x26 Ludwig Thermogloss bass drum shell a while back and a similar debate was sparked:

http://www.vintagedrumforum.com/showthread.php?t=12532&page=2.

The idea of completely stripping it down to bare wood and refinishing it to me was not the way to go. I knew there was someone out there who was trying to finish out a natural maple kit and I felt like it would be up to them to decide how to finish it. Turned out there was someone searching for this drum and I ended up selling to them before I finished removing the paint.

My point in the above post was that depending on the drum, it should be worth more and if at all possible kept in or brought back to original condition. By the same token, I would'nt think twice about re-wraping a 1970's Ludwig 16" black cortex, silver sparkle or wmp floor tom in another color...they're a dime a dozen.

Oh yeah, at let me just say before anyone else has the chance...YES www.myspace,com/williamdgladstone is an unshamed hype for my book BUT ther are some other interestings there too. LOL

Ok so we got #1 covered now let's move on to #2, Restoration...You are a bit of a purist and that's ok. :) I believe there is a time and place for restorations.

Below are pics of a Radio King bass drum that I restored. Yes I used the ugly word, restored. I can't even begin to tell you how bad of condition this drum was in. The pictures make it look better than in person, kind of like the girl at closing time. The wrap had fallen off in a few places, the outer ply was seperating, the drum was out of round, rings, not a single T-Handle or claw could be saved. This drum needed a new life and a new career. I have since found the rest of the kit in like condition and restored it back to as close to factory original as I could. I found the original parts, paid too much for them sometimes because I needed them and replated everything. I also spent countless hours re-polishing to prefection ever part.

Was it wrong? I don't think so. I showed this drum a tremendous amount of love that from what I could tell it never received since the day it left the factory. This drum very likely could of ended up being parted out by someone or even worse, trashed. I have made it a player once again and in my opinion because of the time spent on the restoration, given it a chance to make music for hopefully longer than I'll be around. By restoring some of these drums, they become front line go-to instruments again.

TBC (to be continued) It's almost 1AM here guys. I'm going to bed. See you tomorrow. And yes I will have comments (you expected something else?).

Sleep is for suckers! Come on, man. This is VINTAGE DRUMS!!! Slap that face and poise yourself above the keyboard.