Thanks, leedybdp! I certainly agree with your comments.

As far as being "elitist" I guess you could count me in. I will not own MIJ brands (Pearl, Tama, Yamaha) but I admit my dislike is due to Japanese business practices in the 1980s. My day job is in IT, and I remember when Japan illegally copied American memory chips, then dumped their chips way below cost to drive the American companies out of the chip-making business.

So add to that bias how companies like Yamaha resold Ludwig drums in the late 60s and early 70s, all the while learning to copy them. And of course current Chinese business practices of stealing intellectual property.

So to me, this forum of vintage drums is specifically those American drum makers, plus a couple of European drum makers (Premier and Sonor). These companies took the drum and make it a serious instrument.

lbdp!

Nah ... no need to break the sections up like that in this current version of the VDF. David's concept was to keep ALL the non USA made drums in the non USA-made drums section anyway. It's really that simple! Now, if said posters took a moment to actually READ through the categories, it would be a non issue. That all said though ... when the upgrade is put in place, THAT would be the time to tighten the focus on the different brands/makes/categories, and perhaps we will do just that!

Tommyp

Thanks, Tommy. It just really irks me--always has to see the Asian-made drums included in a forum section such as this one. I will show my bias by stating that it really doesn't annoy me to see the European drums in here because back in the mid 20th century the European companies tended to innovate rather than make shameless knockoffs.The people who want to discuss the Asian drums need a place of their own in our forum.

'the European companies tended to innovate rather that make shameless knockoffs.'

Apart from the Beverley Cosmic 21!!

Yes, the non-USA drums have a section and that's where the posts should be made. Agreed. But, I don't see any need to convolute the separation any further than that.

I'm not sure when the great, American companies started to source parts from Asian factories, but it seems like it started in the mid-late 70's. So, even the great American companies weren't really all that American after a certain point and almost every major American brand became reliant on Asian manufacturing. Where do we draw the line with that kind of thing? For example: Does the Ludwig of post-1980 become an Asian/American hybrid that should be spoken of only in the non-USA section?

I'm old enough to remember when things marked "Made In Japan" meant that they were usually junk compared to similar items that were "Made In America". Now, Japanese made items are considered extremely high quality and things that are Made In America are actually made in China...or Indonesia...Guam...etc. Is anything made 100% in America anymore?....when it comes to drums, I mean ...;) "Assembled In America" doesn't count.

To be allowed to call a product--any product--made in America, a certain percentage of the labor, parts, and assembly must be made or performed in this country. Final assembly of major components must be done in America. I was very well-versed in these requirements as a long-time member of the sales and distribution arm of a major US guitar and amplifier manufacturer. Our government requires import products to have PERMANENT markings on a clearly visible part of the item to state the country of manufacturing. The weasels who made cheap look-alikes of American-made guitars would cheat by attaching little foil stickers to the back of the neck of those guitars. It was amazing how all of those little stickers would fall off before the guitars were hung on the walls of the music stores. The makers and exporters of those sticks of firewood were constantly warned by the government regulators to case and desist. Most of them just continued to disobey, and probably still do. This also holds true for drums and drum hardware. Conversely, If a product meets all of the requirements to claim made in USA status, they are not required to mark the products with any markings to denote this. Case in point is that domestically-made authentic replicas of legendary US guitars from the 1950's--1960's do not say Made in USA because the original guitars never had such a mark on them.