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old drum set newly acquired...help!

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Hello! I came across this forum as I was searching for information about a drum set I have recently acquired. It is a Ludwig 4 piece set, with keyhole badges with serial numbers. I took the tom to a local drum store to find info on the set and was told it was a Ludwig Club Date set, mid sixties. I took the drums apart and found a date stamp on the inside of one, August XX 1967.

When I got the drums they looked like they should have been put out of their misery. Well, that may be a little harsh. After a little cleaning they looked better, but most definitely not a showcase model. I did discover damage to the tom, it looked like it might have been dropped a few times. It still is intact though. My main concern is the bass drum. One of the leg mounts is broken off, leaving a bigger hole than original. The plies in this area look frayed, as if dry rot is occurring. The snare and floor tom are in fair shape. It appears to have most of the original heads, although they are dented and torn. Some pieces of the hardware are missing, like a rubber end for one leg of the floor tom and the bolt that holds the L-arm for the bass mounted tom.

Here are my questions:

1. Is the bass drum a goner, or is it repairable? Any ball park estimates on how much this type of repair would cost? Will the repair alter the sound of the drum?

2. I know this question is a hard one to answer, but what are 60?s Ludwig Club Dates worth? Could the cost of repair be more than what these drums are worth?

3. I researched on the web about Ludwig Club Dates, I could not find info on a set like mine. The ones I found on the web were WMP, sparkle finish, etc. This set of mine is painted red. It looks factory. Could this be the cortex red finish I see mentioned in old Ludwig catalogs? The bass drum hoops have a strip of silver sparkle that goes around the middle, which is the only accent I see.

4. The snare is an 8 lug model. Is this the Ludwig Jazz Festival, or just a snare they put together with the kit? It is wood, and done in the same finish as the rest of the set.

5. Can anyone describe what Ludwig Club date sets are supposed to sound like?

Any information regarding this set or Club Dates in general will be appreciated. I would have attached pics but need to resize them first. Thanks!

Posted on 18 years ago
#1
Posts: 5176 Threads: 188
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Here are my answers:

1. Is the bass drum a goner, or is it repairable?

> It IS repairable...but that is a major repair, in my opinion. It would be easier to look for a Clubdate kit in better condition.

Any ball park estimates on how much this type of repair would cost?

>$50.00 -$100...plus possible shipping charges.

Will the repair alter the sound of the drum?

> Not really in a relevant way for most bass drum applications.

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2. I know this question is a hard one to answer, but what are 60’s Ludwig Club Dates worth?

> It varies upon condition. $500.00 -$1000.00 as a general range for a matched kit. If they are painted or altered from original in ANY way, then the price DIVES into the land of "personal" value only. And that red paint job makes me curious as to the originality.

Could the cost of repair be more than what these drums are worth?

> Yes, possibly....unless personal value counts for something.

__________________________________________________

3. I researched on the web about Ludwig Club Dates, I could not find info on a set like mine. The ones I found on the web were WMP, sparkle finish, etc. This set of mine is painted red. It looks factory. Could this be the cortex red finish I see mentioned in old Ludwig catalogs?

> No. Red Cortex was a plastic, wrapped-finish -not painted. I would need to see close-up pictures in order to make any further assessments.

The bass drum hoops have a strip of silver sparkle that goes around the middle, which is the only accent I see.

>I was going to ask if there was a Duco painted finish, but I guess not. I don't think Ludwig ever offered a solid red painted finish for the Clubdates...I could be wrong, though.

___________________________________________________________

4. The snare is an 8 lug model. Is this the Ludwig Jazz Festival, or just a snare they put together with the kit? It is wood, and done in the same finish as the rest of the set.

> That tells me that it could be a Jazz Fest, but I need to see pictures of the interior and exterior of the drums in order to make an assessment.

____________________________________________________________________

5. Can anyone describe what Ludwig Club date sets are supposed to sound like?

>Well, that's an interesting question! They have a true vintage sound...for several reasons. They make great jazz drums, in my opinion.

-hope this helps a bit.

"God is dead." -Nietzsche

"Nietzsche is dead." -God
Posted on 18 years ago
#2
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Thank you O-lugs for the info! I have some pics here, maybe they can help determine the answer to some of your questions. I hope they come through, I'm not good at this!

Posted on 18 years ago
#3
Posts: 5176 Threads: 188
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Interesting. I see that it, in fact, DOES look like original red paint. At least I can't if there was a previous color.

The hardware looks like nickle and not chrome. '67 you say? Wild! I had no idea. Do you have more close-up details? The fact that the drums have red-painted bass drum hoops is particularly rare -I have never seen any before, anyway.

I don't know what to tell you. If it's original, then it's really cool and I have never seen another one like it before. How does the INSIDE of the bass drum look where the damage is?

"God is dead." -Nietzsche

"Nietzsche is dead." -God
Posted on 18 years ago
#4
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Could this have been a silver sparkle Club Date that someone did a nice job of painting red after wrap removal? There would almost have to be a spot where the wrap was tucked though and that should be obvious on a paint job. Strange.

Sad about the hole.

Posted on 18 years ago
#5
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Update...

I'm still uncertain as to if this is the original finish. It could quite possibly be a very good paint job. As was mentioned there should have been an obvious "tuck" spot, I'll try to take a good pic of the seams, they look too clean as if there never was any wrap.

As for the hole I took it to a local drum shop (Columbus Pro Percussion, Columbus OH) and after a quick assessment the drum repairman said that the previous patch was adequate for playing purposes. He was kind enough to contour the plates to fit the drum better, and helped me select heads for the drums.

Posted on 18 years ago
#6
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Interesting set you've got there. I wonder if the paint job is original, is it possible that this set was done as something like a "school" set. In other words a school or organization special ordered drums in their school colors? It wouldn't have been out of the question in that era as I recall Ludwig doing marching drums in painted colors like the red that appears in your photos. The other thing that leads me in that direction is that the Club Dates were the economy line in those days and perhaps a school with a limited budget would have purchased something like that for a stage band. Just thinking out loud here and adding something to chew on. What do you think of my theory O-Lugs?

Posted on 18 years ago
#7
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Hmm... Interesting thought. Columbus OH = Ohio State University= Scarlet and Gray...? (or silver sparkle, at least)

I double checked the seams, no evidence of wrap. I took off a lug that was on top of the seam to see what was underneath and it was also red, a little deeper in color, still no evidence of wrap.

I found this set in a thrift store. It was my lucky day!

Posted on 18 years ago
#8
Posts: 5176 Threads: 188
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Quoted post

Interesting set you've got there. I wonder if the paint job is original, is it possible that this set was done as something like a "school" set. In other words a school or organization special ordered drums in their school colors? It wouldn't have been out of the question in that era as I recall Ludwig doing marching drums in painted colors like the red that appears in your photos. The other thing that leads me in that direction is that the Club Dates were the economy line in those days and perhaps a school with a limited budget would have purchased something like that for a stage band. Just thinking out loud here and adding something to chew on. What do you think of my theory O-Lugs?

Yes! That thought had occured to me, too. It might be an interesting rainy day project to check around with the local schools and see if, in fact, they are the colors of a local school. I think this is a very good theory!

"God is dead." -Nietzsche

"Nietzsche is dead." -God
Posted on 18 years ago
#9
Posts: 1190 Threads: 86
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The Duco (painted) finishes almost always used silver sparkle inlay. Looks like it it could be original to me. I've seen Ludwig Club dates in solid blue and solid black. These are great sounding drums.

Posted on 18 years ago
#10
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