You justa Standard Nazi.............Storm TrooperStorm Trooper

MCJNIC Hahahaha...the standards are a great buy if you can get them cheap and sure they are pretty much the same as the classics. But, I don't know they just don't have the same vintage vibe.

No disrespect to you Standard Lovers..... but as you can see I'm not alone here.........and don't get me started on the those speckled painted insides......eeewwwwww........... to me its like, I want an old Chevy, and i am looking at a corVETTE and a cheVETTE....... merely my opinion about the standards though

Freekin' dog lovers. You just don't know what life is until you have a cat. That's all I'm saying 'bout that.

pout pout pout :(

Hey, I got plenty of cats! CB 700s, Sonor Performers, Vintage Mica Sonics Deluxe (9plies of the finest vertical wood grain japan has to offer mind you)......but im done takin' in strays if you know what I mean.:D

I take the point about Standards not having that classic Ludwig look that people think of when they think "Ludwig". But me, I think of Standards as having a great vintage vibe that's all their own. Especially when it comes to the strata finishes, which I just love.

From what I understand, Standards had the same shells (and so should sound the same), but they cost less at the time because of the differences in hardware. I've read elsewhere on the forum that one reason was that the smooth Standard lugs didn't have the striated grooves of the Classic lugs, and therefore they were cheaper to polish. Not necessarily lower build quality; just less work to finish them.

Does anyone know how sturdy the Standard hardware was compared to the Classic hardware? (mcj, I'm looking at you. You've got one of each, don't you?)

The lugs are about the same. I've striped one standard lug and (over the years) more than one classic lug. To put this into perspective, Gretsch has some of the worst lugs from my experience. I'm speaking of the Catalina line (birch and such). Slingerland is a close second. So, does that mean that these other drums are substandard? Of course not. You don't evaluate drum quality on lugs alone. That is the most striking diference between the standards and the classics. The wraps are of the same quality. The shells are of the same quality. What else is there? The stands and the pedal. The cymbal stands are outstanding. The snare stand is also very good. The hihat is hit or miss from person to person. I've heard some who love the slimplicity of it and some who can't handle it. To each his own. The pedal is trash.

I love the very cool finishes that came ONLY in the standard line. They are the answer to all those very cool MIJ finishes of the day. Unreal coolness. The setup looks the same with the one and bass mount cymbal or the two up double Tom post.

So, what it boils down to is lug looks. If you don't like the lugs, swap them for classic lugs. The holes are the same.

These drums are a no brainer.

Another wrench in the mix...

There were a few Standard sets that came from the factory WITH classic lugs..... so, now its just tom/floor tom mounts that are different. They also have the same hole spacing as the classic line..

I happen to have one.. where would these fall?

On my front porch!

You are absolutely correct.

Those are either right at the start of the line or right at the end. Ludwig sent some kits out prior to having the lugs and after they ran out of lugs. Both ends.

So, considering the classic shells took on the same inner paint, I'm thinking there may be a logicflow breakdown for some. My kits are very different. The gold sparkle has natural maple inners and the standard kit has the speck paint. The hardware is different. They sound the same. Both are m/p/m shells and both sing the same song. I've swapped the lugs on my 14 standard floor tom that sits in my goofy jazz kit. It now has classic lugs and leg mounts with no change in sound.

I don't know. I miss the point of contention. The appreciable difference doesn't seem to exist.