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Ludwig vintage sound question

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I am working on restoring 2 Ludwig drums - a 22" kick, serial 5503 ( I'm guessing 1964); and a 16" floor tom serial 703977 (has a date stamp of 1969)

The kick has the Resocote interior and a sleeve mount tom attachment. The floor tom is clear laquered. I am looking for a small tom and I am wondering when they made the switch to clear interiors and and post tom mounts. I hardly ever see the sleeve mount toms on eBay. Is there a big difference in sound between the clear laquer toms with post mounts and the older toms with the Resocote and sleeve mounts?

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Posted on 16 years ago
#1
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I am working on restoring 2 Ludwig drums - a 22" kick, serial 5503 ( I'm guessing 1964); and a 16" floor tom serial 703977 (has a date stamp of 1969)The kick has the Resocote interior and a sleeve mount tom attachment. The floor tom is clear laquered. I am looking for a small tom and I am wondering when they made the switch to clear interiors and and post tom mounts. I hardly ever see the sleeve mount toms on eBay. Is there a big difference in sound between the clear laquer toms with post mounts and the older toms with the Resocote and sleeve mounts?

The 22" would be from '63 with that serial according to this Ludwig book. It seems they went from natural to the white paint in '61, then back to the natural except for the Standard series (granitone) in '68. I believe they made the post tom mounts from 1959 on...I have a '65 with the clipper style single mount, so they must have been produced simultaneously and it must have just depended on the series for which mount, I guess.

I also have a 80's Rocker, clear and post, which in my opinion, pales in comparison to the sound of the '65.

Hope this helps...

Posted on 16 years ago
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Your post really helps so thanks very much. Which Ludwig book is that?

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Posted on 16 years ago
#3
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Sorry - 1 year old on my knee!

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Posted on 16 years ago
#4
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The Ludwig Book by Rob Cook. Just go to www.rebeats.com

Tons of great info in there.flower

Posted on 16 years ago
#5
Posts: 5173 Threads: 188
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Rob Cook's book is a great resource for sure, but we generally try to answer questions here as opposed to sending someone off to the library or to the bookseller. :)

In order to determine what characteristics make one drum sound different from the next, it's easiest to cancel out the things that all (or most) vintage drums had in common with each and then see what's left over.

Ludwig's sound came from their 3-ply shells and fat rounded bearing edges.

Paint on the interiors was likely done for cosmetic purposes -to cover blemishes in the veneers...and then marketed as some kind of magical sound-enhancement after the fact.

The paint or varnish would also serve to seal the wood against moisture, too...but much ado has been made of the various coatings...none of which really have an influence on the sound...in MY opinion.

ALL the vintage "Big Four" manufacturers "experimented" with some kind of paint/varnish/sealer....Gretsch =gray, Rogers = gray speckled, Slingerland -brown AND Ludwig = clear mahogany, white, clear maple, gray speckled...etc.

Most of these finishes were likely something that came from the paint shelf at the local hardware store and not something that was invented by lab technicians wearing white coats and goggles. ;)

As far as the types of mounts...the clip mounts were older and less ideal comparatively, but, again, didn't likely "change" the overall sound of any drums.

The reason your later (Rocker) series drums from the 80's didn't sound the same is because they weren't the same shells by then. Once the vintage 3-ply shells were discontinued -somewhere around 1976- the Ludwig sound went away...but nobody noticed that it went away...because everybody was high in those days! ;)

"God is dead." -Nietzsche

"Nietzsche is dead." -God
Posted on 16 years ago
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Thanks for the info. :)

Was there any particular reason that Ludwig switched from the 3-ply?

Just curious...

Posted on 16 years ago
#7
Posts: 5173 Threads: 188
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Thanks for the info. :) Was there any particular reason that Ludwig switched from the 3-ply? Just curious...

I have been told that the 3-ply shells were more labor-intensive to make...which, of course, equates to Ludwig's saving money by finding an alternate way to make shells more inexpensively....and Ludwigs haven't sounded the same ever since.Burger Kin

"God is dead." -Nietzsche

"Nietzsche is dead." -God
Posted on 16 years ago
#8
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Thanks for those very interesting responses.

Somehow I didn't think any of the paint finishes were brilliant sound-wise.

I thinks it's funny that Hayman camr up with 4 coats of varnish (poly) and set the world on fire!!

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Posted on 16 years ago
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