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Ludwig Super Classic early 60's questions.

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My son and I acquired an early '60s Ludwig Super Classic kit in WMP which we've posted about before. Were in the process of performing a light restoration (mostly cleaning and polishing) which is almost complete but I have a couple of additional questions which are confusing us a bit.

The set was purchased from Steve Maxwell's New York store. There are no date stamps visible on any of the shells, but all three shells have pre serial keystone badges and all three are mahogany/poplar/mahogany.

The first obvious point of interest was that although all three drums have been together as a set, presumably from the beginning, the interior of both toms is painted white and the bass drum interior is clear. The pre serial badge places the toms from around 1961 -1963. The clear bass drum with the pre serial badge seems to place it around 1960. But to add to the confusion the pre serial badges differ. The picture on the left shows the badge that from one of the toms. The other tom badge is identical. Its very brassy looking and seems to have paint on the lettering. The bass drum badge on the right seems to be more bronze in color and with no paint. I recall reading there was more than one version of this badge. Can anyone confirm that?

The second thing we immediately noticed was that the spurs are the type used in the 1950's on WFL drums and the placement of the four point rail consolette is near the edge of the bass drum between two lugs similar to the way it was mounted on WFL drums. However, the rack tom has the more modern rod mount bracket rather than the diamond mount of the earlier WFL consolettes. In other words, this bass drum has a few timeline inconsistencies. Is it possible the bass drum is even older than we originally thought, perhaps going back to the late '50s? I was thinking the shell could be a few years older than the toms based on how they managed inventory back then. Any thoughts on this?

Finally although the hardware and wrap is in good to very good condition, the black paint on the BD hoops is worn with bare wood showing in a number of areas. Should I touch the hoops up, or not? If the recommendation is to touch them up, what paint would be best?

Thanks for any assistance.

Mark
BosLover
Posted on 9 years ago
#1
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I wouldn't touch up the BD hoops unless they look real bad. "Normal" wear looks cool IMHO. If you do touch em up though, Krylon satin black, not gloss.

Can't help with the rest, but someone will...

Cool kit!

Mitch

Posted on 9 years ago
#2
Posts: 6170 Threads: 255
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I've got several early 60's bass drums with natural interior while the toms were painted white. That's very common for the period. I have a 22 Club Date bass circa '64 that has the Wfl style spurs. Also have the same in a '61 issue. So that makes sense. That rail placement is also seen on many early pre serial models as well. I can't help you much on the badge stuff however.

I use black sharpies on hoops that need touch up. Takes just a little bit of time. Usually two applications needed on the bare wood portions. You'll be amazed when you are finished. I like it better than repainting original hoops.

Mike

Posted on 9 years ago
#3
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From mlayton

I've got several early 60's bass drums with natural interior while the toms were painted white. That's very common for the period. I have a 22 Club Date bass circa '64 that has the Wfl style spurs. Also have the same in a '61 issue. So that makes sense. That rail placement is also seen on many early pre serial models as well. I can't help you much on the badge stuff however.I use black sharpies on hoops that need touch up. Takes just a little bit of time. Usually two applications needed on the bare wood portions. You'll be amazed when you are finished. I like it better than repainting original hoops.Mike

Thanks for the reply. When it comes to hardware, if Ludwig had it, they used it, even years later. In 1965 I purchased a new 12/14/20 Ludwig set in black diamond pearl from Sam Ash's huge new store in Hempstead, NY. The rail attached to the rack tom via the slotted diamond mount. I didn't realize it back then that by 1965 it had long been superceded by the newer model with the rod and tom bracket.

The sharpie sounds interesting, but wouldn't they give you a flat, rather than matte appearance. I guess it depends on the degree of cover up required.

Mark
BosLover
Posted on 9 years ago
#4
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From DownTownFarmer

I wouldn't touch up the BD hoops unless they look real bad. "Normal" wear looks cool IMHO. If you do touch em up though, Krylon satin black, not gloss.Can't help with the rest, but someone will...Cool kit!Mitch

The problem is the shells and hardware are in excellent condition, and after polishing, the set looks like its much newer than it's 55 years. The amount of spots where the paint is off makes the hoops look a bit shabby.

Mark
BosLover
Posted on 9 years ago
#5
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Paint ...as dwntown farmer mentioned...

2 light coats will do perfectly .....

Bop iT / Til U Drop iT.

ROGER's
1964 Cleveland,.18/14/12 in WMP
1966 Cleveland, 20/14/12 O'natural.
Fullerton,...20/16/13/12 Silver Glass

WFL
1957 B/R Super Classics In WMP

Snares..
Wood & COB Powertones,
Wood & COB Dynasonics,
57 Jazz Festival

Zildjian avedis cymbals.
40s/60s era.
Posted on 9 years ago
#6
Posts: 2010 Threads: 19
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I like to repaint hoops with black lacquer spray paint as that's what they used originally. It has to actually say "lacquer" on the can. New lacquer will dissolve the old lacquer a bit and the new coat will meld with the old one. Also, unpolished black lacquer has just the right amount of sheen to it as the originals weren't polished after painting either.

One caveat though; If anyone has put enamel paint on the hoops over the years then you need to avoid using lacquer as it will "eat" said enamel just like paint remover. You can spray enamel over lacquer but you can't spray lacquer over enamel.

Posted on 9 years ago
#7
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From BosLover

The problem is the shells and hardware are in excellent condition, and after polishing, the set looks like its much newer than it's 55 years. The amount of spots where the paint is off makes the hoops look a bit shabby.

Yes that would be reason enough to touch up in my books too - if there's no real visible wear elsewhere on the kit, then patchy hoops look wrong.

Mitch

Posted on 9 years ago
#8
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About your badges, it looks like your bass drum badge that looks more bronze in color looks like it was polished maybe with some brass cleaner or fine steel wool. I have done that to some stained marked up badges and they came out looking like that. Actulally wished I had left them alone.

Posted on 9 years ago
#9
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From Ludzil

About your badges, it looks like your bass drum badge that looks more bronze in color looks like it was polished maybe with some brass cleaner or fine steel wool. I have done that to some stained marked up badges and they came out looking like that. Actulally wished I had left them alone.

They were both almost black when I got them and I used Brasso on both. Even when they were covered with grime they looked different from one another and under close inspection, which may not be as evident in the photos, they are clearly not the same badge. Even the grommet holding them on are different colors and have slightly different shapes. I took a number of shots in the same lighting and in different lighting and the results were always the same. The two badges seem to be made from different materials, one very brassy looking and one more like bronze.

Mark
BosLover
Posted on 9 years ago
#10
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