Only Admins can see this message.
Data Transition still in progress. Some functionality may be limited until the process is complete.
Processing Attachment, Gallery - 137.28601%

Ludwig snare detective work... FUN!!

Loading...

G'day VDF folk,

A mate of mine bought this snare from London's Foote's Drum Shop in 1986. It was labelled as a 'Ludwig Bronze Engraved'. After looking the drum over for physical and factual indicators, these are my observations:

1. 'B stamp' indicates a brass shell (BR and BZ were bronze)

2. Engravings are computer etched patterns from the late 70s

3. Extra holes (aside from the dodgy P85 installation) are remnants of a Super Sensitive mechanism. The grommets are an effort to make them look like factory-drilled air holes.

4. Butt plate was re-drilled by a drum shop here in Oz.

5. 'New Era' Chicago badge.

As to what he has, it's my guess that this drum is (drum roll, please):

A late 1970s, computer-engraved (formerly) Super Sensitive Black Beauty reissue that has had the black nickel-plating removed. Could the shell have been returned to the factory where it received the mid-80s Chicago badge, extra grommets, and throw off mods?

I'm hoping this post will inspire a lot of forum hypotheses! It's been fun making my own assumptions about this drum. Now, it's over to youse...

All best,

Loop

Posted on 13 years ago
#1
Loading...

Photos of extra holes...

3 attachments
Posted on 13 years ago
#2
Loading...

Indeed, a late 70s, computer-engraved Black Beauty, according to Rob Cook's book, p.139.

I haven't found any reference to a Bronze Engraved Ludwig drum anywhere on the internet, except mention of bronze used for reissue Black Beauties from 1988-1991 (Cook, p. 140).

Posted on 13 years ago
#3
Loading...

I would venture that this is a early-80's drum due floral script, (and mid 80's by the badge) a 70's would have had the B/O badge. Heaven only knows what material they were using at any given time a well... my BB isn't quite brass and well my BZ isn't quite bronze by traditional definitions (the alloy compostion is not quite standard).

Posted on 13 years ago
#4
Loading...

From Hoppy

I would venture that this is a early-80's drum due floral script, (and mid 80's by the badge) a 70's would have had the B/O badge. Heaven only knows what material they were using at any given time a well... my BB isn't quite brass and well my BZ isn't quite bronze by traditional definitions (the alloy compostion is not quite standard).

That is fascinating that the metal composition is questionable. This drum is definitely on the sonically bright side and the enduring brilliance of the finish (with some exception internally) would possibly confirm brass (25+ years old). While both Brass and Bronze oxidise, the vintage BZs I've seen appear to darken considerably more.

My knowledge of late 70s and 80s Ludwig history is not consistent.

Was Ludwig using the 'new era' Chicago badge in the early 80s? Does one actually call it a 'new era' badge (I'm guessing)?

Posted on 13 years ago
#5
Loading...

From vintagemore2000

I think you've hit all the marks, except this would of been a black beauty to be Engraved?? if you can get it for a song buy it!!

Ha. I probably would buy it, but it's one of his studio go-tos...

Posted on 13 years ago
#6
Loading...

That's one of the Bronze engraved Black Beauties from somewhere between 1984-1986 before the changeover to Monroe, NC. The black nickle "plating" has been removed from it for some reason, although you can see remnants of it still. The badge is original to the drum and as are the extra grommets. The factory installed those grommets to give them a surface for the plastic bearings used for the now missing super-sensitive throw-off mechanism. the "B" back then meant brass or bronze, but by 1984 they were using bronze for the Black Beauties, not brass. You can also tell by the darker color of the metal that its bronze. The bronze shells have a more "coppery" color to them....brass would be a brighter gold-yellow color. The "BZ" stamp you are speaking of didn't appear until the early 1990's when Ludwig started offering brass shells again in order to quickly tell the difference on the factory assembly line.

Unfortunately due to the condition of the drum and modifications done by someone, it's not worth a whole lot. I'm sure its a great players drum, but from a collectors standpoint, its worth practically zilch. Even if it was replated in black nickle and a supersensitive throw-off refitted.....you still will always have those extra holes drilled in the drum that can't be filled. Such a shame, as those are quite rare today. Ludwig didn't sell many as they were quite pricey at the time.

Posted on 13 years ago
#7
Loading...

Thanks, LD, for your thorough and thoughtful info!

Y'all have a great Christmas!

Posted on 13 years ago
#8
  • Share
  • Report
Action Another action Something else here