Ludwig still uses the term "Classic" for one of its current lines. THAT'S where it gets confusing to a lot of people. They buy a new "Classic" kit, hear the term "Super Classic" somewhere along the way, and BOOM!: their kit is now referred to as a Super Classic. I won't even get into the whole "vintage" nomenclature debacle that prevails. (gotta love those vintage keystone badge Ludwig Super Classics--you know, the ones from the 90s?)

Definitely a sore subject for the few of us out there who actually care...

Thanks for your information! I definitely don't want this to be a "sore" subject in any way. I just wanted to clear up the confusion in regards to more of the vintage Ludwig offerings, from around the 60's and 70's. Of course, heated debates are what brings more fun and knowledge to the forums!

So, I have a 67 kit in those sizes with no shell mounted cymbal mount, Deluxe Classic?

Yes, and the fact they had different hardware packages, one of which included Hercules....

Technically, no. However, this is an interesting one! Here's why:

In the 1967 catalog, there was no "Deluxe Classic" kit listed -only the "Super Classic"...and then there are some gaps in the years that catalogs/flyers were printed...until in 1970-71 the catalog indeed depicts the new Deluxe Classic configuration. It shows a bass drum sans the cymbal mount. The bass drum indeed has the curved retractible spurs...and shows an Atlas snare stand and an Atlas ("Big Beat") hi-hat stand...

...but here's where it gets kinky...

In that catalog, the description states that the hardware package of the Deluxe Classic is the new Atlas line...but the illustration of the Deluxe Classic shows the cymbal stands as being the old 1400 flat base series and not the Atlas cymbal stands! So, if you were to go only by the catalog, the proper Deluxe Classic of that era should have flat base cymbal stands! What's "weird" is that the Atlas cymbal stands WERE available in 1970!!

So, what gives, you ask?

My suspicion is that there were no Atlas cymbal stands available at the time of the photo shoot for the 1970 catalog -which was likely shot the preceeding year (1969). I think the cymbal stands showed up on the scene a few months after the picture was taken. That's my guess. I back this up with the fact that I have a completely original 1969 Jazzette kit and it's hardware package includes an Atlas hi-hat stand and snare stand, but the cymbal stands are flat base. The Atlas stuff was just coming out of the oven at that time!

The question remains in limbo as to the proper way to describe a 1970 Deluxe Classic kit - flat base stands or not? Hmmmm.....x-mas3

Here's a fresh oppossum for the gumbo.

Classic refers to the lugs and Super Classic refers to the snare.

Whittle that little tangle down.

This is turning out to offer up lots of good ideas! Yes, RogerSling, your reference to Classic lugs and Super Classic snare also holds true! My specific post had to do with calling vintage kits with the "Classic" or "Super Classic" moniker. A quick look at vintage Ludwig catalogs mentions the toms and bass drums as "Classic". which is my whole point.

O-Lugs! As usually, excellent commentary on the whole Atlas hardware thing! I've always noted the same thing about the particular kit that shows Atlas hardware, but also shows the flat-base stands, too! And, yes, there are large year gaps in when catalogs were published, totally adding to what was offered as a catalog kit.

My thanks to everyone contributing to this!

The terms Super Classic were used variously for various sets and drums. So it is easy to see why some may misname them such. For instance, the Super Classic in the 80s were the ones with 4 ply shells and lacquer finish. So this is a bunch of details that one, if so inclined, could sort out. Have fun with that.

I was just going to throw the shell construction names into the mix as well. The 6 ply maple shells which Ludwig changed to in 1976 were called "Classic", and in 1988 there were thinner shells called "Super Classic" in 4 ply. And just when you think you are getting a handle on this terminology, how about the LS558 snare which is 3.5x14 and called a "Super Classic Piccolo". How many plies? 5. :confused:

Ludwig: creators of exceptional exceptions.