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John Grey Autocrats

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Hi Doug,

Your drum is an early 50s Autocrat, it has had a pre war John Grey snare mech fitted and an earlier tone control, it would of originally looked something like this:

http://hindleandheely.co.uk/current-stock-2/1950s-john-grey-autocrat-super-14-x-5-railway-badge-snare-drum.html

Once you get it up and running I'm sure it will sound fab, 50s (and earlier) Autocrats are consistently well made and providing the mech has been fitted correctly (it does look like they did a pretty good job) it will sound great. The grooves in the rollers originally allowed closer contact but with modern snares and ribbons the wires can float above the head. If you have any issues with contact use snare string instead of snare bands, also you could thread the ribbon under the bar rather than over it.

The dips in the shell is called a snare bed and were made intentionally. A snare bed is a small recess on the resonant side of the snare drum shell. Most often snares with beds have less chance of your wires hanging, and you can have a "cleaner" sound/response from the drum itself.

Make sure you seat the heads centrally as these 50s hoops were made for larger calf heads, modern heads will leave you with a 2mm gap between the collar and the skirt of the hoops.

If the head is off-centre with a 4mm gap on one side, tuning will be impossible, or worse still the hoop can pull over the aluminium collar.

When fitting new heads make sure that you have a uniform 2mm gap all around the hoop when finger-tightening the tension rods. Once centred, normal quarter-turn tuning will keep it centred.

If the hoop is slightly out of round, use eight shims to get the head centred using its natural flex. Remove the shims when the drum is tuned.I might have an in round Autocrat die cast hoop somewhere if it's too far gone.

50s 13, 16, 20 Radio Kings
1939 Leedy Professional 14x5 1 ply Mahogany
Bosphorus

http://ukdrums.weebly.com/
http://hindleandheely.co.uk
Posted on 12 years ago
#31
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Good Info Doug!

Other than a good cleaning and oiling of moving parts, the drum really is closer to playable that you think. The warped hoop is really not a big issue, just put a head on it and tune as usual. You can use a drum dial to check for even tension all around. Wax the edges before putting on heads.

So, what color wrap have you chosen? Greys have always looked great in blue pearl, maybe a red pearl for this one?

Posted on 12 years ago
#32
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A friend of mine recently came across a single ply Autocrat, he had it wrapped in delmar ginger beer sparkle and it looks amazing!

50s 13, 16, 20 Radio Kings
1939 Leedy Professional 14x5 1 ply Mahogany
Bosphorus

http://ukdrums.weebly.com/
http://hindleandheely.co.uk
Posted on 12 years ago
#33
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Thanks for the comments guys!

Here's where I'm currently at with the Autocrat:

> Stripped it down and cleaned the outside of the shell and got the surface dirt off the hardware.

> Put on a new snare side head, Remo ambassador if I remember correctly, it was a 'medium thickness' head according to the guy from the music shop.

> Had a good bash at bending the top hoop back into shape. It is in need of further work though as there is still a huge visible gap running the length between two lugs. I can actually see light where the hoop should be in contact with the aluminium part of the head. Hoping to do this tomorrow at Uni. I'm sort of 50/50 on whether I'll be able to bend it. Lets hope so!

> Bought a new batter head but haven't had it up and running fully as yet due to the top hoop problem.

With regards to the finish, I don't consider refinishing it right now a good idea. Hoping to get the snare up and running to see if I intend on using it. If so I will be sure to give it a nice new look, if not I will consider passing it on to someone who will get good use out of it. I would love to see a picture of the ginger beer sparkle, sounds really nice!

How much would you want for the diecast hoop Douglas as I could be interested?

One final thing, does anyone have any recordings of a similar snare? I'm curious to find out what these sound like. And more precisely if this snare has the jazzy sound I'm after.

Regards

Posted on 12 years ago
#34
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It's been a while, but here's some pics of the original finish.

http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd478/6ping6/AberdeenCity-20120411-00050.jpg

http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd478/6ping6/IMG-20120613-00070.jpg

http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd478/6ping6/IMG-20120613-00071.jpg

So basically, it's back to what seems to be the original enamel finish, and it's very discoloured.

This now begs the question, to leave it as is (I quite like it) or make some effort to restore it to the original colour. I was thinking T-cut or something along that lines, honestly not sure how to go about doing so with this much discolouring.

All comments/advice welcome, top hoop is still warped sadly. Not had a chance to go back to the workshop with it yet. hoping next time I can sort it out!

Also still have the badge but don't have it back on in the pictures

Thanks guys

Posted on 12 years ago
#35
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hi,

i have recently purchased an old varied kit from ebay which has a john grey autocrat tom and matching snare, in blue pearl finish, it does need a little restoration/tlc but seems to have the original skins still on and in fairly good condition in comparison to the rest of the kit i picked up. i am looking to sell these items as i will be binning the rest of the kit but thought i would offer them up on here before listing them on ebay, i can provide pictures if required.

regards

sween

Posted on 11 years ago
#36
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From sweentat2

hi,i have recently purchased an old varied kit from ebay which has a john grey autocrat tom and matching snare, in blue pearl finish, it does need a little restoration/tlc but seems to have the original skins still on and in fairly good condition in comparison to the rest of the kit i picked up. i am looking to sell these items as i will be binning the rest of the kit but thought i would offer them up on here before listing them on ebay, i can provide pictures if required.regardssween

PM sent. Thank you.

Barry

Barry (mono-plane)
UPBEAT - Drums For Kids (on Facebook)
71 Black Cortex 22, 14 *wtd 16" ft*
61 Ludwig Super Downbeat 20, 16, 13 w/matching Jazz Festival (Black & Gold Duco)
63 Ludwig Clubdate Blue Sparkle 20, 14, 12 (WTB a nice 12" Blue Sparkle tom)
79 Black Beauty SS 6.5 x 14 (one previous owner players or studio drum) 4 sale
80 Black Beauty Supra 6.5 x 14 (4 sale)
Posted on 11 years ago
#37
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Hi,

I just took delivery of this Autocrat. Chrome has some gouges, but still will polish up well. Seems intact down to the leather washers on the strainer mech. Original John Grey snare wires with plastic ends (word escapes me). The interior has a black ink John Grey & Sons stamp. Solid rather than ply rerings.

I really like the splatter paint wrap.

Will give it a play this evening.

Patrick

4 attachments
Posted on 11 years ago
#38
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Hi,

How do these vintage Autocrats sound?

Do they sound much better than a vintage premier kit? or are they similar?

I have found this Autocrat kit for sale (650 euros)

It includes

12" Vintage Trans Stamp 30s/40s Avedis Zildjian Paper Thin

14" Vintage Trans Stamp 30s/40s Avedis Zildjian Paper Thin

Avedis Zildjian 21'' ride Cymbal

What do you guys know/think about this kit?

[IMG]http://img.2dehands.be/f/normal/172781660-premier-autocrat-met-zildjian-cymbalen.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://img.2dehands.be/f/normal/172781660_3-premier-autocrat-met-zildjian-cymbalen.jpg[/IMG]

Drum Mate (Tama) - Tiger Eye finish - 1966
Ludwig Supraphonic snare - 1968
Posted on 10 years ago
#39
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Seems like a lot for that-----around $900.00. It's really only the two drums as a pair, with a bunch of orphan, Premier stands and a marching snare. The floor tom is intriguing ---what is the badge on that? The rack tom is probably an odd size( 11 7/8") ,otherwise the head wouldn't be sitting broken. Those heads are available ,though.

Posted on 10 years ago
#40
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