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Istanbul K 13" hats

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Can anyone tell me anything about this pair of 13" Istanbul K hats? I've had them in my cymbal bag for about 25 years and have never found a use for them. (I bought my vintage round badge kit in the early 90s, and the seller threw these in along with a 20" Istanbul K ride and some 1970s A crashes. EDIT: I'd originally guessed that they were from the late 50s, but some Google research suggests that these are Old Stamp 2B cymbals dating to 1949-1950.)

I'd like to sell them to someone who'll get some use of out them, but I have no idea what they're worth. They weigh 474g and 602g respectively. They're in excellent shape, with no keyholes or cracks. There's a bit of grime on one of the cymbals, but nothing that wouldn't come off with a good polishing. Any thoughts on their age and value would be welcome. Many thanks!

Kits:
1950s Gretsch Name Band in Midnight Blue Pearl (13/16/22/14sn)
1965/66 Ludwig Club Dates rewrapped in Black Diamond Pearl (12/15/20)
Posted on 6 years ago
#1
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Don't clean them, and certainly don't "polish" them. If you do, it will reduce their value. That's a very nice pair.

Posted on 6 years ago
#2
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From hardbat

Don't clean them, and certainly don't "polish" them. If you do, it will reduce their value. That's a very nice pair.

Thanks! Yeah, I definitely wouldn't polish them myself. That's about 60 years of nice patina there. I just meant to clarify that the grimy spot on one of the cymbals would come off if a buyer really wanted to remove it.

Kits:
1950s Gretsch Name Band in Midnight Blue Pearl (13/16/22/14sn)
1965/66 Ludwig Club Dates rewrapped in Black Diamond Pearl (12/15/20)
Posted on 6 years ago
#3
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Here's what I've found after some quick Googling: based on this guide and this guide, it looks like these are Old Stamp 2B cymbals, which dates them to 1949-1950.

Is it common to see such light hats from this era?

Kits:
1950s Gretsch Name Band in Midnight Blue Pearl (13/16/22/14sn)
1965/66 Ludwig Club Dates rewrapped in Black Diamond Pearl (12/15/20)
Posted on 6 years ago
#4
Guest
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Yes it looks like a 2B to me. I've got more detailed attributes to check than are written up in my identification tool. That was an experiment and I haven't yet been back to create the second generation tool based on user feedback. I would be interested in any suggestions you might have to offer about using it.

Pricing information is linked in my key for identifying stamps but I'm not sure if you spotted the link:

http://black.net.nz/old-k/old-k-prices.html#13

Expected price then (Dec 2017) was based 7 sales of 13" hat pairs (all Turkish K eras), and the median price is $450, with half selling for between $400 and $600. Since then I've recorded two more sales. They don't change the picture much. Here are the six Old Stamp pairs in more detail:

[img]http://black.net.nz/old-k/pricing/13-old-k-sales.png[/img]

The lowest price is a mixed Old Stamp / Turkish K Constantinople pair and no weights were given. I haven't done an overall comparison of prices for pairs with the same stamp versus two different stamps, but I suspect that the price is lower for "mixed pairs" because people don't believe these are factory pairs. The other factor is that many Turkish K Constantinople cymbals are fairly heavy which seems to keep their price down, particularly in smaller diameters. If you have a pair of 18" Turkish K Constantinople that's another thing altogether!

The next two are in the weight range of yours. The most expensive pair ($695) was an auction which was cancelled so that figure is unreliable. This is what -3 in the bids field means. The seller could have sold off eBay for less, or accepted a lower offer. eBay no longer provides sales data for best offers. I filter out any questionable data points like this once I've got enough data, but when sample size is relatively low, I still show them. But the best quality evidence comes from the sales with higher numbers of bids.

As far as how this applies to your pair, they look to be in excellent condition with "signatures" under the bell. I'd put the price estimate in the upper quartile of the price distribution. So I'd estimate that they might sell at $500 - $600 but would be unlikely to sell if you started them off above $600. But never say never. Prices are highly variable and what you get is what you get on the day.

I see you are in Canada and that may affect the expected price as well. Higher shipping costs (and fees for doing import paperwork which shipping companies charge) might make potential buyers in the US less inclined to pay top dollar. Cross border sales (and international price comparisons) are a another complex issue.

Posted on 6 years ago
#5
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Thanks so much for this very detailed feedback! I found your site on Google this morning and was very impressed--the stamp tool took me from knowing nothing about K stamps to knowing exactly which stamp I had in about three minutes flat. This was extremely helpful.

Kits:
1950s Gretsch Name Band in Midnight Blue Pearl (13/16/22/14sn)
1965/66 Ludwig Club Dates rewrapped in Black Diamond Pearl (12/15/20)
Posted on 6 years ago
#6
Guest
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Glad to hear that my tool worked well for you. The next generation tool I'm working on is to avoid the problem where the first or second question can't be answered because that part of the stamp is too poorly pressed in. Often it's the size of the star, and I put in a few workarounds for that in the current version. What I've been working on next uses a different approach to try and avoid that "incomplete stamping" issue.

May I have permission to use your photos on my site in the future? Since all my work is free to share and adapt (Creative Commons sharealike) I need to have my permissions in place to meet the requirements. Just like Wikipedia but for cymbals. :)

Thanks,

Steve the Cymbal Student

Posted on 6 years ago
#7
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Feel free to use my photos for your site! I'm happy to contribute to your excellent tool.

Kits:
1950s Gretsch Name Band in Midnight Blue Pearl (13/16/22/14sn)
1965/66 Ludwig Club Dates rewrapped in Black Diamond Pearl (12/15/20)
Posted on 6 years ago
#8
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