This is all great and really interesting information. Thanks so much to all of you.

Also, the original list price (per the catalogue) was $65 for one of these. You can STILL find them for that, sometimes less, and often not a great deal more. I know they were a "student" drum, and that there are a million of them out there, but considering how many drummers still love them (not to mention inflation), I'm still amazed by this.

The imperial lug version required the least amount of investment in new parts. The shell was the only thing new. All the other parts were already used on other drums. Once they felt they had a winner did they invest in the tooling to make the bow tie lugs. That was by far the biggest investment required.

The early aluminum Supras had the crimped beds. Since the two use the same basic shell It would stand to reason that they would be from the same time frame.

Although both the Acousti Perfect (seamless) Acrolite and Supraphonic 400 are released together in the ‘64 catalog I wonder if it’s possible the Acrolite is Ludwigs first seamless shell. Ludwig engineers were in the lab working the Acrolite metal (aluminum) for shells, lugs, and hoops and actively releasing shells as their new flagship product from ‘61-63. Do we have any known history of Ludwig inventing the seamless shell before they tried to chrome the Acrolite metal later known as Ludaloy? I’ve owned a few ‘64 4 digit crimped bed, red muffler, COB hoop Supras but never a preserial example although I believe they do exist. Perhaps someone here (Mr. Layton) has one. Do we have known example of a seamed Ludaloy shell or a seamed 10 lug in the acrolite metal?

I think that KO has a pre- serial, crimped bed,COB hooped Supra. Hopefully he will chime in here for us.

Mike