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Identifying Ludwig Standard ply woods

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Hi, I have a set of Ludwig Standards, and recently took a closer look at the plies and bearing edges. Can you help me identify if this is maple/poplar/maple or mahogany/poplar/mahogany?

The inner and outer plies look darker, so I would think mahogany, but I thought Ludwig was doing maple by 69/70 (which is when I believe this kit was made -- no date stamps). Then again, I know Ludwig had some inventory issues for years, so who knows what they used! These have roundover edges with what appears to be a 45-degree angle on the re-ring. Granitone interior.

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Posted on 3 years ago
#1
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That would be mahogany/poplar/mahogany for sure. Ludwig used whatever they had on hand or could get when their usual stuff was unavailable. They also seemed to have a large supply of shells in inventory, and they didn't rotate their stock so you could have old shells sitting for years until they got used.

They also very rarely used maple/poplar/maple. It was almost always mahogany outer, then poplar middle and maple inner after they switched away from mahogany/poplar/mahogany.

Posted on 3 years ago
#2
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From thin shell

That would be mahogany/poplar/mahogany for sure. Ludwig used whatever they had on hand or could get when their usual stuff was unavailable. They also seemed to have a large supply of shells in inventory, and they didn't rotate their stock so you could have old shells sitting for years until they got used.They also very rarely used maple/poplar/maple. It was almost always mahogany outer, then poplar middle and maple inner after they switched away from mahogany/poplar/mahogany.

Thanks! This is helpful and good to know.

Posted on 3 years ago
#3
Posts: 2753 Threads: 132
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Once again I'll post: "WHO CARES"? Until about the mid 1970s, we bought American-made and European-made drums that were made of wood. Maybe sometimes we knew what kind of woods were used to make our drums. But, darn few of us knew or cared what kind of wood was used as long as it was not the horrible Luan mahogany used for the cheap Asian firewood drums.Apparently, some us do care about which wood varieties are part of the drums. For me, a drum either sounds good or not as good as I would prefer irrespective of the woods in plies. .

No matter how far you push the envelope, it is still stationery.
Posted on 3 years ago
#4
Posts: 2264 Threads: 83
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From leedybdp

Once again I'll post: "WHO CARES"? Until about the mid 1970s, we bought American-made and European-made drums that were made of wood. Maybe sometimes we knew what kind of woods were used to make our drums. But, darn few of us knew or cared what kind of wood was used as long as it was not the horrible Luan mahogany used for the cheap Asian firewood drums.Apparently, some us do care about which wood varieties are part of the drums. For me, a drum either sounds good or not as good as I would prefer irrespective of the woods in plies. .

True and I agree. But it's still fun to know what the wood makeup was back then. Today's drum makers are all about the wood. Wood first and sound second it seems ...

The greatest gift you can give your family and the world is a healthy you. - Joyce Meyer
Posted on 3 years ago
#5
Posts: 5173 Threads: 188
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From leedybdp

Once again I'll post: "WHO CARES"? Until about the mid 1970s, we bought American-made and European-made drums that were made of wood. Maybe sometimes we knew what kind of woods were used to make our drums. But, darn few of us knew or cared what kind of wood was used as long as it was not the horrible Luan mahogany used for the cheap Asian firewood drums.Apparently, some us do care about which wood varieties are part of the drums. For me, a drum either sounds good or not as good as I would prefer irrespective of the woods in plies. .

It's called "reverse engineering"....meaning that, back in those days, as you say, no one cared about things like the wood or the rims, etc. We just picked the brand of drums we liked. Sometimes, we were limited in our choices by which brands were even available in a particular region. In those days, we assumed that American-made products were better than Asian-made stuff and no one questioned any of it.

BUT....

...NOW, a whole new perspective on "what makes a vintage drum different from a modern drum" and there has been a TON of research and development in areas of drum design and construction that simply didn't exist back then. Now, drummers want to know these things. They want to compare old VS new or era VS era and so on.

Bottom line for me is that IF anyone out there can hear the difference between a mahogany/poplar/mahogany layup and a maple/poplar/maple layup, then your hearing is much better than mine! Still, for whatever reason, some people prefer one or the other.

Also, sometimes, it's helpful to know the veneer layups to help nail down a possible date -or to explain why some drums in a kit do/don't have the same layup -say, in the case of a rewrapped kit....That kind of stuff can be fun for those who like to solve mysteries. It doesn't necessarily have to have anything to do with the sound.

"God is dead." -Nietzsche

"Nietzsche is dead." -God
Posted on 3 years ago
#6
Posts: 2753 Threads: 132
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It's comforting to know that I'm not the Lone Ranger here. I can get my various drum sets to sound good to me...1963 Leedy, 1966 Rogers, late 60s Slingerland, Leedy and Slingerland orphans from the 1940s-50s-and 60s, and my 1950s Gretsch cocktail set. I doubt that people in the crowd could tell any difference in sound between the four full drum sets. Of course, the cocktail drums are in a class by themselves.

No matter how far you push the envelope, it is still stationery.
Posted on 3 years ago
#7
Posts: 5173 Threads: 188
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Yeah, in a blindfold test, it would be hard to differentiate whether or not the veneers around the poplar core, were maple or mahogany. I think I could pick out a Gretsch jazz kit from any other brand of jazz kit....but beyond that, probably not.

"God is dead." -Nietzsche

"Nietzsche is dead." -God
Posted on 3 years ago
#8
Posts: 2753 Threads: 132
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Yeah...especially if it's that legendary Cadillac Green set with gold plated hardware.

No matter how far you push the envelope, it is still stationery.
Posted on 3 years ago
#9
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I agree that it would be very hard to differentiate between the wood types in a blindfold test. No one is ever going to say "Oh, that drummer definitely is playing mahogany drums." And the fact that the drums are mahogany instead of maple (which I thought they were maple until now) will not change how they sound to me or how I tune and play them. So in that regard, yes, who cares?!

For the first couple of decades of playing, I didn't care at all about how the drums were made, bearing edges, etc. But in the last few years, I've really become interested in how drums have been constructed over the years. So my original question was simple curiosity. At the end of the day, yes, they're still drums that should just be played, but nothing wrong with knowing what's inside the drums. I see it similar to vintage cars--at the end of the day, vintage cars get you from point A to point B, but owners of such cars love to know everything about the engines.

Posted on 3 years ago
#10
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