Most vintage G. drums are out of round..

That may be part of "That Great Gretsch Sound"!

Leave them alone is all I can say...

To find out of round, measure the drum at right angles; 12 & 6 position, then 3 & 9 position. Go around the shell. If the drum is -LESS THAN- 1/8th" out of round, leave them be as long as you can get heads on them. 1/8th" or more, using the lug holes at the widest point as anchors, make a truss across the interior to pull the shell into round. Leave it in place for a couple of weeks. Should hold its shape well after that. Look through the archive for 'out of round' there are a bunch of great threads with step by step instructions on how to do the job right. Best of luck to you.

John

As long as the bearing edges are good no worries. Being out of round really isn't an issue, most drums get that way at some point. Wrinkles are from uneven tension.

You should also see if the shells are out of square, meaning when the shell sits on a flat surface does the bearing edge make contact everywhere or are there places where there's an air gap. It's my understanding that out of square is much worse than somewhat out of round.

Steve

Thanks for the advise so far. I'll keep searching for out of round. I am thinking maybe they are out of square as the 12" tom I've tried a few different heads on now and really struggle to get it on. I put the hoop on and have been very careful in tensioning it evenly. It always develops some bad wrinkles unless it is tuned pretty high. I'll do some more work on them over the holidays.

Any other suggestions are appreciated.

You might try using an Aquarian American Vintage head. They are a little oversized and are very helpful when you've got really tight-fitting heads.

Bill

You say the 12" tom is the worst. (They're usually the best.) Just a few things that come to my mind:

*Are the heads that came with the kit played out?

* Are the hoops round? (They usually will slide off the head, if real bad.) Do the hoops slide over the drum easily?

* You say the diameter fluctuates around the tom. By how much? (I would imagine 1/16" or even 1/8" wouldn't cause much havoc.)

* Are the hoops original equipment? (Might be insignificant.)

* I can only presume you are tightening the heads evenly.

* Is this a wrapped kit? Rewrapped kit?

Just some points I'm pondering. Not sure if slight out of roundness would affect tuning too much. Out of square and by how much, I'd imagine would affect it somewhat; may be overcome by adjusting the turns for the affected rods. Interesting dilemma. Usually only hear about this kind of issue with older drums and new heads.

Hmpf!

B

I have a 16" Gretsch floor tom - 1953 3ply - that was out of round on the batter side mostly. A drum builder told me to do the best I can to put a heads on - without stripping the lug nuts - cranking the head down good and tight = as tight as possible without doing damage to the shell, heads and/or hardware - with even tension all around. Leave it that way for a few weeks or more and see happens. I did that - put the drum aside and forgot about it for a few weeks maybe even a month or more.

When I got around to checking it out......the heads fit better - especially the batter head I was having trouble with. I put another 16" head on the batter and that went on easily as well. It still was not a perfect fit but at least I can now easily put a head on the drum where previously it was a struggle. I haven't remeasured the drum to see how much out of round it is - if any. But, in the end, "cranking the heads down" seemed to work = I'm not having the problem fitting heads to the drum now. I don't know if it will work for you - but it's worth a try maybe.

Another way to go is to fit your own calhide heads on the drums - that way you can get a custom fit for each drum. I know that is not for everyone but it is an option.

Well I took some time today to really inspect the drums. I removed the hoops and heads on the 12 and 13. I measured at 12/6, 2/8 and 4/10 on the 13" and the 12" is a 5 lug drum so I measured at right angles to each lug.

The 12" is only 2/32 of an inch out, and the 13" is only 1/32 of inch out. That seems pretty in round to me.

The 12" was measuring 11" 28/32 across and the 13" is measuring 12" 15/16 across. This fluctuated slightly at each measurement but no more than 1/32.

I took several heads and measured the flat part of the head before the head starts to bend into the collar. The flat part of the heads seem to be about 4/32 to 6/32 smaller that the shell. So when I put the heads on the collar does not sit flat on the bearing edge, but hits the portion of the head just above the collar. This makes it seem a little tight... I can put the hoop on and crank the head down, but this didn't work with an earlier head I tried.

I pulled out my Tama Starclassic 12" tom and measured it and the width of the shell is the same, but the bearing edge is a 45 degree moved a little in from the edge and the heads sit on this and spin around flat.

Maybe I am just dealing with the Gretsch round over bearing edge.

I tested out the square of the 12" tom on the glass flat top of my stove (flatest thing I could find) and a tiny, tiny bit of light shines through around a good portion of the edge, but ever so slightly making me think it is pretty square.

So I wonder why I can't get that 12" to tune to a nice fat sound.....

To answer Azbill's questions in hope of finding an answer:

1. The heads that came with it are played out, I have tried some used heads in good condition and purchased a new one today which fits tight but might work OK once it's stretched out.

2. The hoops seem round, they are diecast and in great shape.

3. As mentioned above the diameter does not fluctuate as much as I thought. Well within reason.

4. Hoops are original

5. I assume I'm tensioning the heads evenly. Never had problems over the past 20 years, but I will try once again and be certain for even tension. The 5 lug is new to me though so anything is possible.

6. It is a wrapped kit and I noticed that the wrap comes right up to the edge of the bearing edge and since the Gretsch edge is more gradual I wonder if the thickness is what's binding the head a bit. I have ordered wrap to re-wrap them and maybe that is the solution?

Maybe i will just start over, put new heads on the drums, tension them evenly and try again. If nothing else I am learning a ton about the structure of a drum.