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Glue vs. Tape

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From Jon Petersen

Sorry to argue - but you seem very intend on not reading other peoples posts, since you focus totally on tape ONLY used at the overlap.A lot of people, me included, puts the super-thin 3M 9088 on the whole surface of the coating.NOT JUST AT THE SEAM, if I must go into the same shouting mode!Having used both glue and tape on the same type of thin Premier shells and MIJ Luan shells, I will agree to the statements from a couple of people here:- Tape deadens thin shells a bit - by not hardening, as glue will. The difference is there, but it is NOT huge. There is also difference in sound between a thin single colour coating, and a thick, double layer Delmar Glass Glitter. My bid is, that the difference in sound between glue and tape is in the same league. Therefore, use glue on thin shells - or tape if you don´t mind the shells being damped a little.- Tape will make no audible difference on thicker shells. On thicker shells, use tape if you like.I will add:- Tape will not be strong enough to hold the overlap on a thick Delmar coating wrapped around a smallish shell like a mounted tom. I used the 9088 all around a kit in Delmar Glass Glitter, and the seams lifted. Since then, I have always used contact glue on the overlap, even with thinner wraps.- Tape is less messy, unpoisonous, and can be used even by people that don´t have access to a workshop. A kitchen table is fine, a great advantage.- A tape like 9088 is STICKY. I wouldn´t count on getting another try, if it goes on a little askew - the Delmar is quite brittle, and pulling it off 9088 will very likely break it. So - work methodically and calmly, like you would if using glue. You have one go!Enjoy the work!RegardsJon

Sorry but I do read everyone's posts. You obviously did not read any of my previous ones thoroughly. I have used both methods in the past and prefer the glue method as it is more permanent and professional. The tape method just seems so amatuerish to me. Yes, you could use tape along the whole surface of the shell, but that defeats the purpose of using tape to begin with. If you are going to that extreme to using the tape, why not just glue the wrap? And you yourself stated that the tape method won't always work properly in some cases of shell size....so why bother with it then?

Today's glue (3M FastBond) is no more toxic than the tape method. It's water based, cleans up easy when still wet, yet is very strong when it sets up, far stronger than any hi-bond tape. I'm sorry, but I just don't see the advantage to using tape to bond drum wrap, unless you are planning on re-wrapping the same kit several times (an expensive proposition in itself) with different wrap because you changed your mind on the finish or whatever.

Now, you also stated that you use contact glue on the seams so you have no issues with lifting. Well, that also defeats the purpose of using the tape method now doesn't it? The idea behind the tape method, as you said, was to work with non-poisonous materials and have no mess, along with ease of application wasn't it? You seem to be arguing a point and yet contradicting yourself in your own argument at the same time sir!

Use whatever method you feel comfortable with, but I will tell you this, I've been doing re-wraps/refinish jobs for over 20 years using the glue method and have had almost zero issues with the end results compared to the tape method. The glue method is the preferred method amongst MOST of the professional shops and re-wrap people in the industry. Maybe they might know what they are talking about?

:2Cents:

Posted on 12 years ago
#51
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From poppy79424

That is a very cool tool. I wish had one when I wraped 2 kits. If I ever wrap another complete I will definatly invest.

Yes I find it's definitely worth the investment if you are doing re-wraps on a regular basis. Gives it a more professional look when done.

Posted on 12 years ago
#52
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From Retrosonic

[QUOTE=Ludwig-dude;146118]Tape jobs will eventually bubble up, wrinkle, and crack, lifting up off of the shell growing "wings". The tape will still be intact, just the rest of the areas where there is NO ADHESIVE will do this. If the wrap is glued all the way around, it may still crack under certain conditions, but at least it won't grow "wings".......and this will be the last time I comment on this subject. >>>>>>You just cant make that statement and say its gospel. It is not.Some tape jobs will bubble, wrinkle and crack, and some Glue jobs will bubble wrinkle and crack. The skill of the restorer is the deciding factor.I have ALSO been rewrapping drums for 20 years. Todays 3M tape is as as strong as their glue. You have to know the tools. And any restorer can prevent the "wings" by locating the seam underneath the two rows of lugs. Simply tape it properly, and the lugs will provide pressure to hold the seam together for the life of the drum.

Sir, I do know the tools and do have the skills involved to do this work. 3m does make a nice tape, but to state it is as strong as their glue is not true. I never stated my statements were "gospel".....they are just true about 98% of the time on the subject in my experience. If tape is so great, then why are most of the major manufacturers going BACK to the glue method? Ludwig has, Gretsch has, and so has the reissued line of USA Leedy drums. If that isn't enough reason to use glue, then I don't know what is.....these guys are well aware of the economy reasons to use tape....they all did at one point (exception being USA Leedy) and found huge warranty claims ensuing due to "poor wrap jobs".

Posted on 12 years ago
#53
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I have restored many drums. Mostly just deep cleaning, polishing, repairs, and replacing missing or damaged parts. I have only rewraped 3 complete kits.

I Used glue on 2 and had no problems except the edge I had to trim. The other kit was with the sparkle brite film. It is hard to trim that edge without getting into the bearing edge. I did the floor tom a few days ago with the tape and it was definatly the easy way to go. If I ever do another rewrap I will get the tool, but I doubt I'll ever do another rewrap on a complete kit. It seams that rewraped drums arent worth much. I only buy drums that do not need to be rewraped now.

1960's SONOR 12-16-20-14 blue slate pearl
1968 LUDWIG 12-13-16-22-14Sky blue P
1972 LUDWIG 12-13-16-22-14BlueVistalite
1972 LUDWIG 12-13-16-22-(14 impostor)BlackPanther "SOLD"
1964 Ludwig Oyster Black Pearl 22-12-13-16-14Supra "SOLD"
1969 LUDWIG 12-13-16-22-14 Citrus Mod "SOLD"
1969 LUDWIG Sexto-Plus 8-1 0-12-13-14-15-16-20-20-14 Silver Sparkle
60's Majestic Delux 12-13-16-22-14 red pearl
2009 Homemade Kids 8-10-13-16-12 Orange Sparkle
24 kits, 80 Snares, 65 Cymbals
Don't tell my wife!
Posted on 12 years ago
#54
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One final point to make to those of you who THINK you can hear a difference in sound between a tape job and a glue re-wrap job.....congratulations! You are superman! Can you hear a slight difference up close an personal? Possibly. Will the audience out front when the whole band is playing? Ummm...no. I don't use the glue method because of "more resonance" or any of that super-over-hyped drums need to ring forever reasoning that some of you folks out there insist on. I use it because its a more professional and permanent job. I think most fanatics out there, including many of you on this very forum, have bought into the hype about the difference in sound between the two. I myself do not and did not buy into that.

Use whatever method YOU like, but as for me and my work, I'm sticking to the glue method. It works best for ME.

The Band

Posted on 12 years ago
#55
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From poppy79424

I have restored many drums. Mostly just deep cleaning, polishing, repairs, and replacing missing or damaged parts. I have only rewraped 3 complete kits.I Used glue on 2 and had no problems except the edge I had to trim. The other kit was with the sparkle brite film. It is hard to trim that edge without getting into the bearing edge. I did the floor tom a few days ago with the tape and it was definatly the easy way to go. If I ever do another rewrap I will get the tool, but I doubt I'll ever do another rewrap on a complete kit. It seams that rewraped drums arent worth much. I only buy drums that do not need to be rewraped now.

Don't fall into the trap that re-wrap drums aren't worth as much as originals. While it may be true to very collectable drums, it does serve its purpose. It gives new life to old drums where the finish has become so ugly that they could possibly just get thrown away in the trash. This is where it serves its purpose.

I re-wrapped a bunch of "orphan" Leedy drums a couple of years ago in an original type of finish. The original finishes were shot. When I was finished, they looked like the vintage drums they were supposed to look like, not the "trash" that they were. I sold them with the buyer knowing full well that they were not a matched kit originally and that they were a re-wrap. I got about $2800 for them. So......re-wrap not worth much in this case? You tell me! :D

Don't fall into the collector mentality. Yes they do mostly drive the market value on vintage drums these days, but even that market is falling still. A quality re-wrap drum is still worth more than a completely trashed original. I look at it as restoring a drum to it former glory and to make it useable as a drum again, not just re-wrapping. I'm in it for that, not just to make a buck at it. There's more to life than just money people.....yes its nice to have, but its not the end-all-be-all like some in this hobby have made it out to be.

In the end, they are your drums, do what you like to them (within reason) if that ticks off the collectors, oh well! :p

Posted on 12 years ago
#56
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I bought a luddy 5 piece standard kit at a garage sale for $75. They had been rewrapped and the wrap was all cracked and falling off. I ended up wraping them in citrus mod. They look fabulous, but I dont think they are worth much

It dont really matter because they arent for sale. It was a fun project and I really enjoyed doing it. It gave me lots of personal satisfaction. I glued the wrap on, and used tape on all the over laps. I might actually take em out to a gig someday.

1960's SONOR 12-16-20-14 blue slate pearl
1968 LUDWIG 12-13-16-22-14Sky blue P
1972 LUDWIG 12-13-16-22-14BlueVistalite
1972 LUDWIG 12-13-16-22-(14 impostor)BlackPanther "SOLD"
1964 Ludwig Oyster Black Pearl 22-12-13-16-14Supra "SOLD"
1969 LUDWIG 12-13-16-22-14 Citrus Mod "SOLD"
1969 LUDWIG Sexto-Plus 8-1 0-12-13-14-15-16-20-20-14 Silver Sparkle
60's Majestic Delux 12-13-16-22-14 red pearl
2009 Homemade Kids 8-10-13-16-12 Orange Sparkle
24 kits, 80 Snares, 65 Cymbals
Don't tell my wife!
Posted on 12 years ago
#57
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From Ludwig-dude

Don't fall into the trap that re-wrap drums aren't worth as much as originals. While it may be true to very collectable drums, it does serve its purpose. It gives new life to old drums where the finish has become so ugly that they could possibly just get thrown away in the trash. This is where it serves its purpose. I re-wrapped a bunch of "orphan" Leedy drums a couple of years ago in an original type of finish. The original finishes were shot. When I was finished, they looked like the vintage drums they were supposed to look like, not the "trash" that they were. I sold them with the buyer knowing full well that they were not a matched kit originally and that they were a re-wrap. I got about $2800 for them. So......re-wrap not worth much in this case? You tell me! :DDon't fall into the collector mentality. Yes they do mostly drive the market value on vintage drums these days, but even that market is falling still. A quality re-wrap drum is still worth more than a completely trashed original. I look at it as restoring a drum to it former glory and to make it useable as a drum again, not just re-wrapping. I'm in it for that, not just to make a buck at it. There's more to life than just money people.....yes its nice to have, but its not the end-all-be-all like some in this hobby have made it out to be.In the end, they are your drums, do what you like to them (within reason) if that ticks off the collectors, oh well! :p

Could be the most balanced and salient advice so far in the discussion, AMEN.

BGT

1972 Slingerland WMP 80N
1959 Slingerland Hollywood Ace
1965 Slingerland Artist Snare
1968 Slingerland Artist Snare
1972 Slingerland Sound King COB
1963 Slingerland WMP Student Radio King
Posted on 12 years ago
#58
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From Ludwig-dude

One final point to make to those of you who THINK you can hear a difference in sound between a tape job and a glue re-wrap job.....congratulations! You are superman! Can you hear a slight difference up close an personal? Possibly. Will the audience out front when the whole band is playing? Ummm...no. I don't use the glue method because of "more resonance" or any of that super-over-hyped drums need to ring forever reasoning that some of you folks out there insist on. I use it because its a more professional and permanent job. I think most fanatics out there, including many of you on this very forum, have bought into the hype about the difference in sound between the two. I myself do not and did not buy into that.Use whatever method YOU like, but as for me and my work, I'm sticking to the glue method. It works best for ME.The Band

If there is no difference in sound, why not use tape then?

I am not contradicting myself, I am just saying that different means suit different jobs. Tape is easier, so when I can, I will use it. On other jobs, it harms the sound too much, and I will use glue.

And yes, modern contact glues are water based and non-poisonous.

It is still a lot less messy to put contact glue on the overlap only, rather than on a large sheet for a bassdrum.

Why you are so aggressive in your communication, I don´t understand. We are all just trying to pass on advice regarding the original posters question - glue or tape. You did, and I did, to the best of our taste and knowledge.

Regards

Jon

Posted on 12 years ago
#59
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From Ludwig-dude

Don't fall into the trap that re-wrap drums aren't worth as much as originals. While it may be true to very collectable drums, it does serve its purpose. It gives new life to old drums where the finish has become so ugly that they could possibly just get thrown away in the trash. This is where it serves its purpose. I re-wrapped a bunch of "orphan" Leedy drums a couple of years ago in an original type of finish. The original finishes were shot. When I was finished, they looked like the vintage drums they were supposed to look like, not the "trash" that they were. I sold them with the buyer knowing full well that they were not a matched kit originally and that they were a re-wrap. I got about $2800 for them. So......re-wrap not worth much in this case? You tell me! :DDon't fall into the collector mentality. Yes they do mostly drive the market value on vintage drums these days, but even that market is falling still. A quality re-wrap drum is still worth more than a completely trashed original. I look at it as restoring a drum to it former glory and to make it useable as a drum again, not just re-wrapping. I'm in it for that, not just to make a buck at it. There's more to life than just money people.....yes its nice to have, but its not the end-all-be-all like some in this hobby have made it out to be.In the end, they are your drums, do what you like to them (within reason) if that ticks off the collectors, oh well! :p

Here I agree with you - completely!

Regards

Jon

Posted on 12 years ago
#60
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