I couldn't remember his name off the top of my head when I made my last post....but yeah Craviotto will be future vintage collectible for sure.

Speaking of future vintage who snagged the champagne downbeat kit from the east coast what a deal I’ve not seen drums this clean in long time with all the goodies...

I've had Old and New Stamp alloy tested by top labs and there isn't a difference. It's just B20. There are construction differences, particularly in the bells, as the factory changed from sledge in bells to pressed in. The style of hammering also changed. But the alloy shows continuity.

I presume "less wanted" is standing in for "sell for lower prices". The lower prices for New Stamps vs Old Stamps has been documented, but there is more to it than just "wanted". Price is an equilibrium between supply and demand, if you believe basic economics. Plus there are other factors in prices which I've documented including an interaction between weight and price and production era and diameter.

Actually, the topic fits very well as far as I'm concerned because it highlights several of the issues which relate to why vintage gear gets higher prices. That in turn might inform us about what "modern gear" might be the future collectable gear.

The example of Robert Spizzichino cymbals is a good one in that regard. His cymbals are now selling in the same price range as Old Stamp K Zildjian Istanbul cymbals. So the combination of fine craftsmanship and limited availability is what one might look for in current drum gear. Craviotto springs to mind.

Many of the things drummers post about vintage prices and "the vintage market" turn out to be beliefs which aren't based in actual data. Here's a data based review from the perspective of vintage electric guitars. This is germane because it isn't uncommon for drummers to say the same things about the vintage market, and for drummers to use the vintage guitar market (and the "huge increases") to support their beliefs about the vintage drum (and cymbal) market.

https://reverb.com/news/are-used-gear-prices-going-up

Note that "old growth wood" or "50 year old wood" in vintage drums may be like "different alloy" in vintage cymbals and guitars. It may or may not have a detectable sonic effect. But what matters to price is what people believe about it. That's more about advertising than science. My take on it as a researcher on cymbal prices is:

Nothing but an Old K is an Old K. Some cymbals other than Old Ks can enjoy the same Old K price advantage, but the sound and look has to be right, and buyers need to believe prices are going up.

Nothing but "50 year old wood" is "50 year old wood". Some modern drums can enjoy the same vintage price advantage, but the sound and look has to be right, and buyers need to believe prices are going up.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

In my experience there are great jazz cymbals in every period as well as not so great ones (most modern A's excepted). Jazz players generally tend to want a darker, woody stick and a nice complex wash underneath with a little trash that does not overwhelm the stick. I think lighter vs heavier has always been the preference but in the end it comes down to whether a particular cymbal "speaks" to you. I'm not sure the New stamps are much "meatier" than older stamps. My son is an active jazz player and covers various periods, but usually his choice of cymbals for gigs is based more on his mood at the moment then anything else. In fact his latest go to jazz ride isn't even one of the many vintage cymbals he and I own. He has a new Avedis line 22" ride at 2422 grams which is dark and woody with a great stick and definition, and a great wash.

Guys your still not getting it , a metallurgist told me at one of the shows that the metal molecules tend to bind up , rather tightly wound , and being that they are not at there truest so to speak , and it takes years for the metal to wind down , so that’s why 602 made the same way do not sound like there aged brethren...

I would like to make only one consideration, so many things said are true, but we think the first K EAK and K Canada are practically contemporary with the latest New Stamp production, and the demand/supply market establishes that the New Stamps cost an extra zero at the end of the amount of the price, it is not that people are so crazy to spend that much more, there is a reason and it is very valid!

Roberto Spizzichino has created cymbals until 2010, yes 2010! and these sound and cost almost like OS!

this only to be to reflect on the real facts!

I also play jazz and sometimes to wash my ears I go with the Turk series, or even I would prefer with a can of peeled tomatoes, but that's not the point in the talk ...

We all have our own perceptions on this subject. I've heard a lot of Spizz's over the years and they all sounded great, but few of them sounded anything like Old K's. I've been listening to Istanbul K's since the early '60s, before most of them would have been considered vintage. IMHO, many didn't sound that great, but the great ones have never been matched by anybody.

I guess I'm one of the few guys who dig '80s drums. At only 28 I'm fairly young though. I really like the early '80s Japanese stuff from right before the power tom craze. (Pearl, Yamaha, Tama) My favorite kit, and some of the best sounding drums I've ever heard, is my 1980 Pearl G-series Maple shell Big Beat outfit in Walnut lacquer. The shells are 8 ply Rock Maple, 6mm thick, no re-rings, and rounded 45 degree bearing edges. They are all standard sizes 9x13, 10x14, 16x16, 16x18, 14x24, and a 6.5x14 COB snare. I wouldn't trade them for anything!

Give it time you can do things with a vintage kit from the sixtys , that no others can pies also ...