Dan, when I said that for some reason I was thinking about a Club Date kit, my apologies. I did have a few Downbeats, but they weren't in collectors condition. Here's the last on I had in a champagne sparkle finish.
I had the same kit at one time Mark. It even had the add-on double tom holder. Only photo is in the group photo.
Just to clarify...The drums in a Downbeat set are the same as the drums in any other Ludwig catalog outfit. The names just refer to the particular combination of drum sizes and hardware. There seems to be this notion these days that "Downbeat" toms were different from "Hollywood" toms were different from "Big Beat" toms...etc. Not the case, same drums, different sizes. So if you gather up 12/14/20 three ply drums you'll have the sonic equivalent of a Downbeat set even if it wasn't born together at the factory.
Just to clarify...The drums in a Downbeat set are the same as the drums in any other Ludwig catalog outfit. The names just refer to the particular combination of drum sizes and hardware. There seems to be this notion these days that "Downbeat" toms were different from "Hollywood" toms were different from "Big Beat" toms...etc. Not the case, same drums, different sizes. So if you gather up 12/14/20 three ply drums you'll have the sonic equivalent of a Downbeat set even if it wasn't born together at the factory.
That’s correct
But there’s something cooool about born together kits
at least close enough that it’s the same year
But at this point trying to find the 14/14 is a hard one
That’s correct But there’s something cooool about born together kits at least close enough that it’s the same year But at this point trying to find the 14/14 is a hard one
^THIS all day long. There's nothing else like having an entire kit that has remained together and intact since the day it was put together -close-matching numbers, etc. It also usually indicates that the drums have been taken care of and not moved around a lot over the years -maybe the kid who never really fell in love with the drums....maybe someone who just bought the kit to decorate the "rumpus room"....Whatever the case, most collectors aren't interested in sonic accuracy as much as they are concerned with completeness and originality. If they can get something depicted in a catalog, then all the better.
After all, who wants to "collect", say, a 14/16/20/Supra kit? The drums will likely sound great, but there's no reference or history attached to that configuration. No famous celebrity drummer used or endorsed those sizes. There's no picture of a kit in a catalog of those sizes.
A famous brand, all-matching named kit with all the proper hardware, is always going to be a better collectible.
And just to reinforce the point further, even though there may be kits that have the same size/style drums as found in any other kit, there are situations where the hardware package is different -as in the case of the Super Classic vs. Deluxe Classic kits. Even the fact that the Deluxe Classic doesn't have the bass drum cymbal mount, can make a big difference to a collector.
EDIT: And to clarify even further....There are situations where the shells are the exact same shells, but certain finishes on those shells were only offered under a specific line of drums. I'm referring to the Ludwig Standard line. Again, same shells, same sound....but different hardware and different finishes. No one could buy a Super Classic kit with a Ruby Strata finish. No one could get a Standard kit with a rail consolette and gull-wing spurs. Well....maybe it was possible to do so, but you get my point (I hope).
Leedybdp counterpoint in 4...3...2...1...:):):):)
^THIS all day long. There's nothing else like having an entire kit that has remained together and intact since the day it was put together -close-matching numbers, etc. It also usually indicates that the drums have been taken care of and not moved around a lot over the years -maybe the kid who never really fell in love with the drums....maybe someone who just bought the kit to decorate the "rumpus room"....Whatever the case, most collectors aren't interested in sonic accuracy as much as they are concerned with completeness and originality. If they can get something depicted in a catalog, then all the better. After all, who wants to "collect", say, a 14/16/20/Supra kit? The drums will likely sound great, but there's no reference or history attached to that configuration. No famous celebrity drummer used or endorsed those sizes. There's no picture of a kit in a catalog of those sizes. A famous brand, all-matching named kit with all the proper hardware, is always going to be a better collectible.And just to reinforce the point further, even though there may be kits that have the same size/style drums as found in any other kit, there are situations where the hardware package is different -as in the case of the Super Classic vs. Deluxe Classic kits. Even the fact that the Deluxe Classic doesn't have the bass drum cymbal mount, can make a big difference to a collector. EDIT: And to clarify even further....There are situations where the shells are the exact same shells, but certain finishes on those shells were only offered under a specific line of drums. I'm referring to the Ludwig Standard line. Again, same shells, same sound....but different hardware and different finishes. No one could buy a Super Classic kit with a Ruby Strata finish. No one could get a Standard kit with a rail consolette and gull-wing spurs. Well....maybe it was possible to do so, but you get my point (I hope).
Let's say you're a vintage Volkswagen collector and you're looking for a '62 Beetle. One day, a guy drives up in a Bradley GT and says, "THIS is a '62 Beetle! because the chassis came from a '62 Beetle and it's the same car except for the body and interior!"
*pssst!*....But, see, you don't want a Bradley GT. You want a complete and original '62 Beetle. :)
Well...same thing goes for a Downbeat kit. It's not just the sizes that make a Downbeat kit a Downbeat kit. It's not just the shells. It's the entire package and how it was put together. And that kind of matched kit in that configuration, is extremely rare these days.
There was never an unlimited supply of vintage drums, and vintage drum collecting has been going on for decades. Do the math. Lots of the nice Downbeat kits are already in collections. You, likely, won't find one until someone releases one from their collection. And even then, it will probably be someone like Steve Maxwell who will broker it. That, or the sky will open up and one will miraculously appear. heh
O-lugs,
You have made some great points and they are very well defended. I love the Beetle/Bradley comparison.
I think the only kit that mattered to me much in the terms you present has been the Rogers Citadel in the 67-68 catalog. It did and still does matter. Why? It was beautiful, I wanted it and it was beyond reach when it was in the catalog. So I went back later in life and got it. On the other hand, for nearly 10 years, I've embraced the never cataloged by Rogers 20, 13, 16 setups (at least I'm not aware of it) because they are off-speed pitches, so to speak, but sonically very nicely matched for a lot of day-in/day-out applications. They come at better prices too because fewer collectors want them. They are like the Healey 100-6 was for quite some time. Everyone had to have the 3000. But now the 100-6 is catching up and eventually the 20, 13, 16 will too.
In any event, thanks for a very good and defining explanation of the collectables. I think that is right on the mark.
In this morning's Reverb feed: a real Downbeat kit!
#66 in Full Acoustic Kits
1966 Ludwig Downbeat Drum Set. One Owner In WMP!
Used – Very Good
$3,450
$400 price drop
+ $350 Shipping
Serial numbers are close - born together. Real nice shape with the 4X14 snare. It's in the Cleveland area.
Regards, MB
In this morning's Reverb feed: a real Downbeat kit!#66 in Full Acoustic Kits1966 Ludwig Downbeat Drum Set. One Owner In WMP!Used – Very Good$3,450$400 price drop+ $350 ShippingSerial numbers are close - born together. Real nice shape with the 4X14 snare. It's in the Cleveland area.Regards, MB
Yes, that one's a beauty.
That might be a bargain compared to down the road in a decade or so
that same kit a decade ago
we’re still 1500 or less
