[COLOR="DarkRed"]Drumaholic can correct me if I am wrong...however...I believe that this is an Italian made cymbal somewhere of the '30's-'40's vintage. I have some Italians which have the same Constantinople signature (including an Ajaha, which is confirmed Italian).

The story being, back then the 2 major players in cymbalmaking were Italy and Turkey...so this was a marketing scheme by Italian makers to stay in the race, so to speak.

Which was a bit silly, because Italian vintage cymbals are very top-notch for the most part.

If you ever wanna sell it, PM me. I would likely make you a good offer on it.[/COLOR]

Thanks for the reply, Jaye! I think it can be a bit difficult to decipher these old signatures, but it would be fun to know exactly what it says. With the kit came also another 20" CYMBAL, an old UFIP Ritmo - that's definitely Italian in all cases ...

By the way, can You determine if the rivets is the original ones - can I take them off without reducing the value of the cymbal?

Despite the fact that there is a stamp that says "Constantinople" in the trademark as well as with the signature, this cymbal is not Turkish. The trademark comes in various forms usually with some but not all of the components that form the complete version.

Here is the trademark in a few of its varied manifestations:

[img]http://photos.imageevent.com/drumaholic/constantinople/websize/ersatz%200.jpg[/img]

[img]http://photos.imageevent.com/drumaholic/constantinople/websize/Copy%20of%20ersatz%203.JPG[/img]

[color=blue]Two examples of the most basic and crudest forms with script only.[/color]

[img]http://photos.imageevent.com/drumaholic/constantinople/websize/24%20Ersatz.jpg[/img]

[color=blue]A more complete form showing the actual name.[/color]

[img]http://photos.imageevent.com/drumaholic/constantinople/websize/Copy%20of%20ersatz%205.jpg[/img]

[color=blue]An example of the form that's just like yours.[/color]

[img]http://photos.imageevent.com/drumaholic/constantinople/websize/Zveltiam%202.jpg[/img]

[color=blue]The complete form of the trademark in all its glory, which is very rarely ever seen like this.[/color]

[img]http://photos.imageevent.com/drumaholic/constantinople/websize/Copy%20of%20unknown%20sig%203.jpg[/img]

[color=blue]And finally, the signature that goes with it, which is sometimes not there.[/color]

The brand name is "Zveltian" which is a UFIP stencil brand made in the 1950's in Italy, not Constantinople.

And thanks to you Drumaholic because you made this clear to me - it's the same stamp and signature on my cymbal.

You're welcome. And if was up to me, I'd take out all those damned rivets and find out just what that thing really sounds like.

[COLOR="DarkRed"]I bet it's a nice cymbal without the rivets...[/COLOR]

Those rivets will soon be gone...thanks again!

Here's a 24":

[img]http://photos.imageevent.com/drumaholic/kzildjianandco/_DSC4188.jpg[/img]

[img]http://photos.imageevent.com/drumaholic/kzildjianandco/_DSC4189.jpg[/img]

Listen to this:

[color=red]24" Zveltian[/color]

Sounds svelty (Zvelty), don't you think?

[COLOR="DarkRed"]That's pretty nice...actually from the pic it looks like it weighs a ton...but it's got a nice, mysterious kinda sound to it. I like.[/COLOR]