This is incredibly subjective and I honestly do not believe any three drummers could be in total agreement across the board on all points.

What we have is a conglomeration of varied opinions given by loud and abrasive individuals and some very quiet and mild individuals ... and all those in between.

Because collecting and playing are so very personal, it's pretty much impossible to nail down all the points. Some will agree on a couple, but you can rest easy knowing that they do not represent the majority.

Many collectors do not speak out. They are the quiet (and well behaved) silent majority. They do not require a lot of talk. They watch and make their moves when they feel it is the right thing to do. They don't require a lot of positive stroking from the masses nor do they have a need for a public platform.

This is why the issues heat up on these forums. There are NO hard and fast rules. In fact, the rules that some try to lay down WILL be broken.

Case in point - some boobs will swear by the credo that changing the Tom mount on the bass and wing Tom make it a players kit. Fact is, most on this very forum would agree with that.

Let's break the rule, shall we?

Several of Ringo's kits and Neil Peart's kits and etc etc etc ... were modded. Some of them extremely. If you can find several examples, then the rule does not hold up.

It's really all just personal mojo and should be taken with a grain of salt.

Don't allow yourself to fall into that trap. If you love it, play it. If you collect it, buy it. YOU are the determining factor ... always.

#1.) It depends on the collector or the player...or the collector/player. Some are very picky about every little nut and bolt.

#2.) ^see #1.)

In general, the way the collecting game works is that a "hierarchy" of collectibles is established. For example: To a 60's-era Ludwig drum set collector, the Jazzette is by far the most highly-desired object because, for one thing, they were made in comparatively small numbers. Finding a complete one, today, is rare. And when one is found, there are often numerous things "wrong" with it (no snare drum, drilled for different mounts, etc.). So, what happens is that when one IS found in its complete and matched form with no alterations, it is ranked very highly in the aforementioned hierarchy. To a Ludwig player who doesn't care about the collectible rarity, the Jazzette is still very desirable because of the sizes and because of the sound the drums make.

So, the criteria is different in either instance.

As a player/collector, I want both. I want as "perfect" a set of vintage drums as I can find and I want to play them, too. The two worlds are not mutually exclusive.

Start with a perfect drum set at the top of the hierarchy and then start whittling away from there. Every little thing that isn't perfect diminishes the collectible value to the collector who demands perfection...which brings it all back around to the first point which is that it really depends on the standards set by the individual.

I'll use another example of the member who wanted the perfect Oyster Blue Pearl pattern on a Jazz festival snare drum in order to perfectly match the rest of his perfect kit. He found one drum that was very close to what he was looking for....but wasn't exactly perfect in his eye. Still, he paid $3K for an "almost perfect" version....and it still wasn't a matching drum because the numbers didn't match! Again, different criteria for value.

Pretty much anything goes as far as players kits are concerned.

"...Don't allow yourself to fall into that trap. If you love it, play it. If you collect it, buy it. YOU are the determining factor ... always...."

That's it right there.

Mike Curotto

RogerSling mentioned the attachment of star drummers to the set they played -That's a WHOLE other category and has a whole different set of criteria.

Ringo, Buddy, Elvin, Tony, Bonzo -they all have their own collectible details that are rationalized by those people who are fans.

And one final thought....

While it might seem like everyone who is looking for that perfect example of the ideal drum or drum set for resale value purposes, it's just not always the case. Some people seek the perfect drum or kit for themselves and they have no intention of selling it once they find it. Sometimes the end of the road is met! So, whatever value the market may indicate, it doesn't always reflect the emotional value from the perspective of the owner.

That, Mike, is it. Lug's... you're also correct, especially one of your addendum's. I've always played one up and two down. The blue sparkle Ludwig kit was not complete until I found the other floor tom. If offered a fair price, it was outa here. But not now. I've got the second ft and it's a keeper. Same with the Standard kit, but only for sentimental reasons. A few years ago I mentioned selling the Camco kit, my wife told me I couldn't. I've no clue why. So there you go. Reasons to keep or move on to new are all in your head...

Okay, I'll shut up now.

I had the perfect set in my hands and let it go. I started to feel like I really didn't need them and what would I do with them, set them up in my already too small space and show them off to my "few" drumming buds! I came to the conclusion that I am a player, not a collector. I instead went for a "players" kit in the sizes that I wanted and couldn't be happier. I dropped the rack tom at a gig last week and dented the hoop and it was like "oh well".

i think there is a rule's to follow that if its a vintage piece you do your maintenance and play them as a drummer better sets for special occasions and every day kits still vintage but maybe not so desirable but sounds great , they wont brake there meant to be played, of course if you don't play and your a collector then you collect simple... drums are like anything else in the antique collecting game,they have something definitive about them ,sound even smell as to condition,a scratch, a pit, fading, etc none perfect..in a perfect world the doors of Biasco would still be open to the time machine room and you can order 1967 drums and cymbals so because the 50's and 60's are past we seek a connection to probably one of the greatest eras of music and that sound we are always looking for...

so non players verses players that would be a good thread

.....scratching my head to figure out exactly the meaning of what I just read. I think I understood essence of it.

Anything can be collectible to the collector--even dryer lint. The drum sets in my collection range from museum quality to rewrapped orphan drums and all categories in between those two ends of the scale. I have mentioned before that I do not obsess about every nut, bolt, and washer.