Hi,
I just bought a Japanese kit that was too cheap to pass up. It has the mahogany shells with re-rings. I've heard that you can paint the interiors (like Ludwigs and Gretschs) to make them sound better. Has anyone done this or have any information on doing something like this?
Thanks
Hi,I just bought a Japanese kit that was too cheap to pass up. It has the mahogany shells with re-rings. I've heard that you can paint the interiors (like Ludwigs and Gretschs) to make them sound better. Has anyone done this or have any information on doing something like this?Thanks
one of the many problems with the old Japanese drums is the wood used in the shells. although it looks a bit like mahogany , it is actually very porous and soft and splintery, whereas true mahogany is a hard,dense, wood. there is no doubt , that such wood in a drum shell has an absorptive effect on the sound of the drum. due to its porous soft and likely splintered nature , some of the air moving around inside the drum will get trapped and stalled in the wood pores. the wood will also have a character of vibration ----the more cracked and splintery, the more complex the vibrations which will contribute to overtones , resonance and outright vibrating notes or even chords . Painting , seals up and basically glues all those disonant bits together and cleans up the interior muddle. as one person said to me , while presenting such a drum to me for a light rebuild-----well, that's o.k., as he perused all the tape and the bent wires , I'm into a trashy sound. my retort was;as i assessed his and his drums capability; you won't have any problems attaining that.
The wood used in Japanese shells is indeed mahogany. However, it is an asian mahogany, not the denser African varieties of higher end shells. The term "lauan" is a product, a type of plywood and is made from many different types of woods. This lauan from the MIJ drums is made from asian mahogany woods of low density. There are over 125 varieties of mahogany worldwide. As it ages unprotected, the grains split and open, the very thin plies begin to seperate.
I use lacquer on the interiors of my MIJ shells to close up the grain. This strengthens the really thin 3 ply shells and makes the shells more reflective. The thicker 6 and 9 ply shells are the same woods, just thinker, heavier and tend to have higher reflectivity due to this fact.
Other people that deal with MIJ shells use other products, it all has the same end result, making the wood last longer and adding sound reflectivity to the interior of the shell. Some of the more popular products, besides lacquer and polyurethane, is Tung Oil. I prefer lacquer over poly because it give the wood a more warm sound than just a coating of plastic, which is what your basic poly is, liquid plastic.
My drums sound very nice, musical, and have a wonderfully deep resonance. I have several kits of mahogany lauan from Japan and they do not sound "trashy". I do more, however, than just "paint the insides". These are indeed complex drums, and the more you understand about the nature of resonance and sound wave movement within a cylinder, how to work wood, edges and otherwise, the more successful you will be in restoring and renovating the drums at hand.
That's a great reply Jonni. I am wanting to floor wax one luan drum interior- I just am very busy in September and have to put building projects off until maybe Jan/Feb when things are slower. Several luan kits I have here are painted and several are not- I cannot honestly hear a big difference. I do think it will help the drum shell to age- luan does get dry and splintery. One of the reasons I love Pearl Presidents is the fiberglass shells have none of this typical MIJ problem. If you do decide to paint the interiors I suggest doing it carefully and neatly- I have seen interior paint jobs where it looks terrible- as if someone just spilled a can pf paint in there. Others look neat and meticulous and wouldn't injure the resale value hardly at all.
This is very intereesting and i think Jonni has nailed a few key points here.There is nothing wrong with well aged,dry,porous wood.We all love the sound of those 50,s Gretsch clear shells,and just because they,re maple [mostly] the sound will be difficult to separate from a MIJ drum,and i,ve gone through this a few times to prove to myself.I think we dont want to believe that these Asian kits and the value they currently have can even touch a Luddy,Sling,etc.,but they do with a little effort.Not all Asian kits are capable though,just a handful of the 60-70,s models are.Painting the wood imo would be a waste of time,but,treating the wood periodically is a good idea with oils,etc and there are 100,s of products for this.If wood gets to dry,its possible it could split or break at any given weak spot.Keeping it somewhat flexible will ensure you will have many years of enjoyment from any wood shell.You would,nt paint Granny,s 150 old walnut bookcase would you,or that great pine plank floor in the farm house kitchen...Be kind to your woodSoap Box
Look at the Neil Peart drum page and you'll see that he had all his drums coated on the insides with a process called Vibra-fibing, discussed here on the drum forum:
He says it made the drums more consistent and made tuning much easier for the drums.
I feel that the imperfections are sometimes what makes the sound. I like the structural "reinforcement" aspect and I like the increased consistency, but on the other hand I am enamored with the porosity of the wood on the shells and rather than calling the smoothing of the inner ply an improvement, I would call it a "change".
Some might prefer the softer tone of the drums as they originally are.
Ludwig drums were made with the wrap in the ply seam. The shells, although painted inside, are often not completely round and they have a unique tone as a result of it. Similarly to that the Japanese drums and all other drums have a unique tone from the original porous and thin shells. If I were to voice a pet peeve about the sound it would probably be from cheap hardware and heads.
Certainly any alterations to the insides are going to change the sound somewhat, and many may feel for the better.
My Whitehall is already painted gray. Should I lacquer it as well or is that overkill that might do more harm than good?
My Whitehall is already painted gray. Should I lacquer it as well or is that overkill that might do more harm than good?
If you wipe a damp cloth across the paint, it will come right off. I have a set with this paint and I am certain it is nothing more than cheap paint designed to look like the American counterparts.
Is lacquering your 6 and 9 ply shells necessary? No, but it can't hurt to close the grain. It will brighten and control the overtones a little maybe, but that is all it will accomplish, other than from a preservation standpoint.
Should I lacquer over the paint or try and remove it first? I'm not very experienced in woodworking.
Should I lacquer over the paint or try and remove it first? I'm not very experienced in woodworking.
I would take the lugs off first, lightly sand the interior, with a 220 grit, just enough to "clean" the surface, remove all dust with a damp rag, making sure to remove all dust, tape the exterior of the holes and then apply one or two coats of lacquer. I also recommend taping the outer edges of the top of the bearing edge so you don't get lacquer all over the outside of the shell. If you are careful, you will have a nice, clean finish that will last for years and will also help to protect at least the interior of the shells. I use Deft because it is actually the least expensive lacquer that Lowe's sells. Makes no matter if it is satin, flat or gloss, but I would get the gloss in case you want to use it for something else later.
