I've previously purchased a Camber C-4000 20" ride just to have matching cymbals (the Werco kit came with C-4000 hats and 18" crash/ride), not a good choice. However, I was interested in this Camber II because it was called a thin ride and was inexpensive. I'm really impressed. This thing sounds very good and way better than the C-4000 which is like B8. I don't know what the Camber II's are, maybe B12 or 20. Anyone know for sure?