I've not seen lathing/hammering like that before.

Now there`s a lathing I've never seen before. My guess is it's a newer one.

Someone told me it is an early Scimitar, but it is non sense due to the Avedis stamp I think.

As far as I know, the stamp became laser engraved on the 90s, so my guess is 80s. Anyone?

Zen or Bill will nail it if they see the post.

Ok, I researched a bit and found on the internet a Scimitar ride with the Avedis stamp and same hammering/lathing.

I have have never seen this before. I have to try it out to check if it sounds bad like the scimitar hats I played in the past.

It's definitely a third generation Scimitar model. The "dotted line" hammering, along with the color (B8 alloy) gives that away.

I know that Zildjian started adding ID Numbers to cymbals in 1994, but the laser engraving started years after that; the first few years the ID numbers were stamped in just like the trademark. I know the Scimitars were discontinued and replaced by ZBT's, so whenever the ZBT line started would be about when this cymbal is from, minus a couple of years. My guess is mid-to late 90's, but could've been as early as 93 or 94 (in between Scimitar Bronze (2nd Generation of Scimitar) and ZBT's.). Maybe Zildjian didn't stamp the low end stuff (Scimitar was their entry level line back then) with ID numbers at first?

Yes that machine hammering pattern is found on Scimitars. Here is a discussion from last year:

http://www.vintagedrumforum.com/showthread.php?t=59087

The hammering style is also seen on the K line "Custom" cymbals (from before the time when the K Custom line came out in 1995). Not that the cymbal in the original question is a K given the A trademark stamp. But we know this style of hammering is around in the later 80s and in use in more than one line at Zildjian. I'm still working on pinning down all the K model variants from this time before the separation of the K Custom line.

[img]http://black.net.nz/avedis/images/18-early-k-custom.jpg[/img]

If you are speaking of the A Zildjian line or the K Zildjian line, then this is news to me. There are some unusual serial numbers (as in don't fit the standard pattern) on cymbals with laser serial numbers, but I have never seen serial numbers which follow the factory standard pattern on cymbals with pressed in die stamps (pre laser). See:

http://black.net.nz/avedis/anomalies.html#unusual-laser

The laser stamps started out at 12 o'clock in 1994, and moved to 3 o'clock in 2002 (on current best evidence). The die stamp trademark on the cymbal the OP is asking about is what we call the "70s" stamp, although I've got evidence it was in use up until the laser process came into use. The last of the "distinct" die stamps was the 370th Anniversary one in 1993.

[img]http://black.net.nz/avedis/images/370-die-stamp.png[/img]

After that it was all on for the laser process...until the 2016 A Avedis series went retro and resurrected the 60s short stamp!

If you have examples which contradict what I've documented so far please let me know so I can update my site.

If you are speaking of the lower lines of Zildjian cymbals then I've collected lots of examples but still haven't yet put together a proper overview. Perhaps the laser stamps didn't start on the lower lines in the same year as they did for A Zildjian line. I know that the lower lines sometimes have the A Zildjian pressed in die stamp in current use at that time and sometimes have a series specific die stamp. Like this Amir one:

[img]http://black.net.nz/avedis/images/20-amir-stamp.jpg[/img]

If you follow the VDF link I gave before to the 2017 discussion and download the pdf you get the years for the 3 different generations of Scimitar (in three different alloys), and can see how these relate to the ZBT release year. It seems like

Gen 1 Scimitar zinc alloy (mb63) 1986-19??

Gen 2 Scimitar bronze (B20?) 1989-19?? (may overlap with zinc version and/or B8 version)

Gen 3 Scimitar (B8) 1991-1998

ZBT (B8) 1998-relaunch in 2004-2016? (S family intro)

I don't really get a clear picture from the Zildjian model pdf about final production years for Gen 1 and Gen 2.

A fantastic and thorough job as always, zen!

I know for a fact I have a couple Zildjians that have pressed (non-laser) trademarks with ID numbers. I have them at my storage unit. Next time I am there I will take photos and post them here. I should be there this weekend.

V

Thank you Zenstat